Dojo Kun

[supergroup7]

"For some reason, we (IKO1) pronounce the kanji for "kokki"(self-restraint) jiko. I'm not expert enough in Japanese to know why."

Osu Meguro.. thank you for that clarification. It is good to know about this difference.

[supergroup7]

It is my belief that such things as the Dojo Kun, the 11 mottoes of Sosai Oyama, the teachings of our founder, and the cultural component of our training are central in exposing the philosophy of the art of Kyokushin. All Martial art styles learn how to kick, and punch. What makes Muay Thai different from Kyokushin? I would offer that it is HOW, WHY, and WHEN we apply our Art. If we are to call ourselves Kyokushin karate ka, then it should be visible in our demeanor, and understandings that we are such.

I still remember when I first started training in Kyokushin. All of my Shotokan culture, philosophy, and body cues made it difficult for me to adapt to Kyokushin fighting. My opponents always felt TOO close to me, and I had so much trouble adapting to the different demands of each technique. Although very similar, even the manner in which the students enter a dojo, line up, and bow was difficult to adjust to at first. I found myself always going into Musubi dachi instead of Fudo dachi.

I have to agree with all that Meguro has said.

[seienchin]

When I was running my dojo, and when I taught in other people's dojos, we always, without exception, finished with the dojo kun. I actually felt it was central to defining our identity. And I used to tell people who didn't want to particiapte that they could get fit down at the local gym, or learn to punch in a boxing class. The ideas behind the dojo kun, I think, defines our "product".

Supergroup -thanks for sharing your reflections. that looks like it was a time-consuming labour of love!

My reflections are a little shorter - but here goes:

We will train our hearts and bodies, for a firm unshaking spirit:
Here, in the first line, Kyokushin defines itself as an art where the spirit is more important than the body. But training the body is important enough to rate a mention in the first line.

We will persue the true meaning of the martial way so that in time our senses may be alert:
Well, before being able to pursue something - we have to find it. Kyokushin is the "school of the ultimate truth" so here, I think we are linking in to the traditions in Kyokushin, which after time, we will be able to understand the meaning.

With true vigour, we will seek to cultivate a spirit of self-denial
again - the spiritual realm, to be practised in the physical, but we are cultivating the spirit.

We will observe the rules of courtesy, respect or superiors and refrain from violence.
My personal favourite line. If I could reduce the kun to one line, I would pick this. Courtesy, respect and non-violence define what we should be striving to become, and indeed, what we must become if we are to be trusted with the learning that karate will give us.

We will follow our religious principles, and never forget the true virtue of humility
Interesting to have religion and humility paired. I think this one encourages us to be true to our spiritual roots, but not in an ostentatious way. I think it also exhorts us to overall humility, not just in matters of religion.

We will look upwards to wisdom and strength, not seeeking other desires:
Again, spirit and body together, but spirit first. And this one is not at all clearly about physical strength. I like to think of it as being both. That in Kyokushin, we respect the physical strenght of youthful vigour, but we also respect the wisdom of later years or that gained through hard training and even injury.

All our lives, though the discipline of karate, we will seek to fulfil the true meaning of the Kyokushin Way.
There it is again - that "true meaning". It is an unending quest. All our lives, we will SEEK. We won't get there, but we won't stop seeking.

[supergroup7]

Oh Yes! I like your short, and to the point reflections, Seienchin! I really enjoy the very last line about how we do not stop seeking. NICE!!

I've always liked to express myself with alot of words. You should see how crowded the written tests, and essays that I create. Yes, I took my time, and thought about each line of the Dojo Kun that I wrote my reflections on... I wanted something that I could look back on and feel good about.

[kyokushinglen]

Thanks very much for taking so much time and effort to reply to my posting. Good luck with your grading.

OSU

[kyokushinglen]

Excellent; thanks very much. I will try and memorise these definitions for my new class.

OSU

[seienchin]

glen - I suspect you could write your own...You've been around too long to have a vacuum in between those ears!!!!
Maybe you could use what we have done to prompt something that is "you"...I'm quite happy for you to use mine, but I think that like punches and kicks- it's best to find what works for you personally. With students, it will seem more "real" that way.

Good luck with the new dojo.

[Brad]

i wish you all the best with your dojo also and there was so much good info given.

[kyokushinglen]

I think my wife might disagree, but I get your point. Not someting that I have had to convey to students up until now. Will just have to extract thumb from ... and get on with it.

Thanks once again

OSU

[kyokushinglen]

Thanks very much. I,ll let you know how we get on. First night tonight.

I agree, the information was fantastic and much appreciated.

OSU

[supergroup7]

Osu Kyokushinglen! Wonderful.. just wonderful! It is uplifting to know that you will be writing out your own reflections of the Dojo Kun! Your students will appreciate this also, as they will hear your words, attitudes, and thoughts echoed in it.

Does your dojo have a website? If it does, you might want to place this on a webpage in it.

[FutureProdigy]

Originally Posted by meguro

I point out that the wearing of a dogi, the dojo kun, osu no seishin, etc. while peripheral to martial arts, are central to Kyokushin Karate. There is in fact a cultural component, shocking as it may be. Remove all these and other traditions and you have something that falls short of sport or simple exercise.

Could you elaborate a bit more on this when you have time? I have been doing kyokushin for 4 weeks now and have never once recited the dojo kun in class or been talked to about the importance of the dogi, osu no seishin, etc. I am very interested in this sort of information.

[FutureProdigy]

supergroup7 - did you ever finish your own reflection on the 11 mottoes? I enjoyed reading your interpretation of the dojo kun and was hoping you had finished something similar for the 11 mottoes. Very insightful stuff. Thank you.

[meguro]

Originally Posted by FutureProdigy

Could you elaborate a bit more on this when you have time? I have been doing kyokushin for 4 weeks now and have never once recited the dojo kun in class or been talked to about the importance of the dogi, osu no seishin, etc. I am very interested in this sort of information.

There are lots of posts on the kun and as many views. Recitation of the dojo kun after class reminds you what all the sweat and effort was about.

The dogi is your uniform.

Osu no seishin-the spirit of osu-again another topic you can write books about. In a word, perserverance.

Poke around, there are lots of good insights on this forum.

[FutureProdigy]

meguro - that is the most superficial explanation... i was not looking for something that surface level. You posted:

"I point out that the wearing of a dogi, the dojo kun, osu no seishin, etc. while peripheral to martial arts, are central to Kyokushin Karate. There is in fact a cultural component, shocking as it may be. Remove all these and other traditions and you have something that falls short of sport or simple exercise."

I was looking more for why its central to kyokushin whereas only peripheral to other MA's, etc. I know what a dogi is and what the translation of osu no seishin mean.

[meguro]

You were expecting a treatise? My response was intentionally brief. You did say,"when you have time." I wasn't trying to brush you off, but I and others have expounded on the topic at length, if not here then in other fora. Make use of the search function.

I was looking more for why its central to kyokushin whereas only peripheral to other MA's, etc. I know what a dogi is and what the translation of osu no seishin mean.

Really? Think about this for a moment.

[FutureProdigy]

i was not necessarily expecting a treatise... but seeing how you mentioned that you point out the importance of these things to new students, i thought you might expand on them seeing how i explicitly stated i just started 4 weeks ago and have not been told anything on these topics. So, to answer your rhetorical statement... I have thought about it but still do not know the importance of a gi in kyokushin as opposed to its place in other MA's - seems to be no different.

[supergroup7]

Originally Posted by FutureProdigy

supergroup7 - did you ever finish your own reflection on the 11 mottoes? I enjoyed reading your interpretation of the dojo kun and was hoping you had finished something similar for the 11 mottoes. Very insightful stuff. Thank you.

Hi FutureProdigy.. I started off responding to this thread with the first three of the mottoes by a simple mistake of that day, and then I went into the Dojo Kun.. No.. I haven't finished something similar for the 11 mottoes.. in fact, I feel that I could ( with experience, and contemplation) improve on the first three that I have written. Right now I am seriously devoted to exploring, and learning about the history of Kyokushin in the world, and especially in my country. All of my energy is going towards learning about the pioneers, and forerunners of the Art that I am learning. Yes.. I will, for personal reasons, write about the mottoes, and improve on what I have started. If it pleases you, I will share my efforts on the forum.

Thank you for the compliment on my interpretation of the Dojo Kun. Even as I read them again, I wonder "Wow.. did I write that?? Wow.. that came from me?" But then, I realize that the concepts hidden within the words are things that I've heard taught to me by the books that I have read written by the Masters, and by the various Sensei that have shared their wisdom during classes.

If I may, I'd like to answer your other question to meguro in my own interpretation.

"Could you elaborate a bit more on this when you have time? I have been doing kyokushin for 4 weeks now and have never once recited the dojo kun in class or been talked to about the importance of the dogi, osu no seishin, etc. I am very interested in this sort of information."

Training in Martial Arts/Fighting/Self defense does not necessarily need the addition of dogi, bowing, dojo kun, etc. A person can become an extremely good fighter in a good training environment. However, as the training happens, you will find that a certain "culture" will happen. It happens in any human activity. Joggers, for example, start to do similar things such as wearing jogging suits, wearing sports watches, using similar terms, focusing on stamina routines, carrying water bottles, using special sun screen. A "culture" evolves around that activity which unites them into a common understanding. You speak to a jogger, and they will tell you that they did a "3 minute mile" and you will see that this has a meaning for them.

This also happens within Martial arts. A Kyokushinkai will understand you when you say something like "the Spirit of Osu was strong today in class".

Wearing the dogi not only helps you as a tool in training through the way that the obi belt ends swing when your hips turn properly, or the knot points to where your hips are angled, or how your deep breathing pushes against the tightness of the belt, etc. but it also provides a sound as you move sharply. You can hear a strong strike through the sound of the heavy cotton "hushing" with the movement. When you have over 30 black belts all moving together to count the room surges with this hush over and over again like the waves of an ocean rhythmically embracing the sand of the shore. The cotton of our gi pulls our sweat away from us, and allows our body to "breath". The Dogi also involves a sense of belonging. It is like a school, or military uniform. It identifies the kind of Martial art that you do by the make of it. A Judoka's dogi is totally different from a Karateka's because we have different needs in our training. We can see that our dogi were designed to facilitate kicking, punching, grappling, throwing, etc. The outfit fits the function. We would not want to wear a firefighter's suit, or a tailored tuxedo to train, would we? It doesn't fit what we do.

As for the Dojo Kun, for those who want to learn how to fight, and become a weapon, it is even MORE necessary to understand the responsibilities associated with learning these skills. We train to become more humane, and to have more self-control, more patience, more confidence, so that we can refrain from violence. Our goal is to defend ourselves, and avoid the evil things that we have seen happening in the world around us, not to contribute to it.

[meguro]

Thank you, thank you Supergroup7!