Motivating Students who "can't"

Dent · 06-02-2008, 09:01 PM

Osu!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmd

I am the same in the dojo and get frustrated at those who use the word 'can't' too much -

We fixed this in the Dojo by making anyone who uses that word do 20 push ups!

Now you should hear the improvement in vocabulary. "Sempai, I will attempt this difficult task, but I fear that success may elude me."

Osu!

Nix · 06-02-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dent

We fixed this in the Dojo by making anyone who uses that word do 20 push ups!

Now you should hear the improvement in vocabulary. "Sempai, I will attempt this difficult task, but I fear that success may elude me."

Brilliant! I tried enforcing this while assisting another class, but the sempai was too nice... It's not a problem with my current students, but I will take a mental note of it.

**tmd** · 06-03-2008, 08:00 PM

Tried it - they just do half hearted push ups, get all chippy about it and annoy me more, eventually the Sensei gives up enforcing it.

Any more suggestions gratefully received.

Dent · 06-03-2008, 08:44 PM

Osu!

I have been known to show people the door, and suggest that they either find another activity, or return when they have a better attitude.

No class should be disrupted by someone with a weak attitude. I have gone so far as to refund a full months dues out of my own pocket just to see them go.

I'd rather work with those who try and fail, than those who fail to try.

Osu!

**tmd** · 06-04-2008, 10:44 PM

Nice sentiment Dent and one I aim to follow in my dojo (he dreamed) but I have to accept that firstly my Sensei earns his living from his dojo and so has to accept all comers and some people are there for different reasons, maybe just to collect badges - maybe as a social club, maybe to help give them the strength to say no or I can't? So long as they are not disrespectful; their inabilities/ attitude should not effect my ability to see Karate for what it is - Personal achievement.

The only caveat to this apology for laziness is that similarly to misery - negativity loves company and if you get one negative bugger in the class pretty soon it becomes hard to focus on why you're there.

**hasbeen** · 06-05-2008, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmd

Nice sentiment Dent and one I aim to follow in my dojo (he dreamed) but I have to accept that firstly my Sensei earns his living from his dojo and so has to accept all comers and some people are there for different reasons, maybe just to collect badges - maybe as a social club, maybe to help give them the strength to say no or I can't? So long as they are not disrespectful; their inabilities/ attitude should not effect my ability to see Karate for what it is - Personal achievement.

The only caveat to this apology for laziness is that similarly to misery - negativity loves company and if you get one negative bugger in the class pretty soon it becomes hard to focus on why you're there.

osu tmd!!

isn`t the "negative bugger" there to be on the receiving end of,"sorry i slipped!"

Dent · 06-05-2008, 11:57 AM

Osu!

I think that making the push ups a military style punishment may not be the best option. I try to make it a, "Gotcha! Ha ha ha." thing, where we as a group try to get rid of the word, "Can't".

I've been caught with it, and dutifully done my share of push ups too. With a smile.

Osu!

Nix · 06-05-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmd

Tried it - they just do half hearted push ups, get all chippy about it and annoy me more, eventually the Sensei gives up enforcing it.

Any more suggestions gratefully received.

Make them do another excercise. Or, if you want to be strict, you could tell them to keep doing pushups untill you are satisfied - make sure they know that sloppy pushups won't please you. And if they refuse to do the excercises, simply let them know that those who don't wish to participate, can seat themselves at the back, or even exit the dojo altogether.

seienchin · 06-05-2008, 02:55 PM

Don't know if it would work with adults, but it might. A good technique with kids is to give them a choice between what you want them to do...and another thing you want them to do...you just make it clear that doing neither is simply not an option, that they have to give at least one of them their best shot. So, if people "can't" do push-ups, they can do a plank, if they "can't" do squats, they can stand in deep kiba-dachi. "If you can't do push-ups, down now for a plank, and stay there until I call you up...anyone breaks the plank, we will all be doing planks after we have finished the pushups". something like that.

Anyway -we have wandered off topic...I shall move this section into a new thread....

Dent · 06-05-2008, 03:19 PM

Osu!

Thanks for the move, Seienchin. Probably a good choice given our topic drift.

I also like to ask if anyone feels that we/ they have a weakness we should work on together. This is a great way for individuals to be part of directing their training.

Another fun one is sharing the responsibility for calisthenics. Nothing seems to encourage people to say, "I can!" more than having them call the tune.

Osu!

**Brad** · 06-05-2008, 03:48 PM

Osu Dent.

You have the same attitude my old instructor had. Any one that uses i cant instant push ups. Im going back to training there next month.

mary222 · 06-05-2008, 04:45 PM

it as always help me to feel that my sensei doesn't care of the result or how good the technique is as long as i give my best (this is phylosofically speaking everyone loves a perfect technique) you see your sensei at least 2 or 3 times a week for year he knows what you can achieve or can't (oops forbiden word down on the floor for my 20 push up

)

Dent · 06-05-2008, 04:50 PM

Osu!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary222

it as always help me to feel that my sensei doesn't care of the result or how good the technique is as long as i give my best (this is phylosofically speaking everyone loves a perfect technique) you see your sensei at least 2 or 3 times a week for year he knows what you can achieve or can't (oops forbiden word down on the floor for my 20 push up

)

Quite right, Mary222! The seniors know that we can push ourselves, and so can apply foot to rear from time to time. With minor exceptions, this is a good thing, and can only make us stronger.

Osu!

kyofighter · 06-07-2008, 03:20 PM

You can't make someone want something.
From my experience I can tell that usually those who always cry that they can't do it are the ones that lack the heart and they will quit after a while.
I stoped spending my energy with them, especially here in america.
I usually help students by showing them how is done and telling them that when I started I could only do one push up .

**jcbel** · 06-07-2008, 07:29 PM

We had a shinai in our dojo that was named "The Motivator".

Nix · 06-07-2008, 07:55 PM

I also heard about a dojo who had "whining biscuits" - it's a Danish joke. Long story short, every time someone whines, they are told to have a biscuit from the pack by the shind. Apparently the strategy works, noone wants to embarass themselves in front of the entire class!

EnterTheirMinds · 06-07-2008, 08:22 PM

Well, the idea of push-ups could work although I suppose it'd be more for kids than for adults. I'm more in favour, however, as to whether or not I'd like this for myself (from the student's point of view). I don't train in kyokushin, so maybe they have a different philosophy than what I'm used to. Nevertheless, here are my takes on it:
POSITIVE:
1) It'll make the student motivated to try and fail rather than to just abandon all hope from the start. This is good in anything, not only karate.
2) It'll make them physically stronger.
3) It'll make them mentally stronger; by knowing that saying the word "cant" leads to punishment (push-ups), they may realize that they must always try to tackle every situation, regardless of how successful they may be.
NEGATIVE:
1) Instead of punishing the student, try to see what they fail to understand, then help them out.

If they truly don't understand the task, then punishment is not the answer but rather clarification is. However, if they either don't understand or do understand but refuse to put enough effort in, then some punishment to put the effort in may be in order. Just remember, if you are to apply punishment/reward, explain why they are receiving this. Take for example a puppy who is left alone and urinates on the carpet. When you come home, if you choose to rub its face in the urine then scold it, it's not learning not to urinate on the carpet but rather to not put its face in urine.

All of this being said, if a student just abandons all effort, then I presume punishment is in order to motivate them. If the student knows what to do but couldn't be bothered to do so, then yet again, punishment may be in order. If a student doesn't understand and couldn't be bothered to try, then that is where I'm unsure on the punishment being used.

Kurisu · 06-07-2008, 08:49 PM

Best motivator - THE SHINAI! A few whacks will fix that attitude.

Nix · 06-07-2008, 09:35 PM

Good points, EnterTheirMinds. Here, have some rep!

Personally I'm against punishing those who simply do not understand, but to punish those who don't put any effort in it. Some people are afraid to do certain things (for example cartwheels), then punishment may be a motivator to overcome that fear. You will never succeed unless you try, and if you can't be bothered with trying, that's just bad attitude.

Osu!

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