Self Defense Thread

Veniamin · 06-06-2006, 04:18 AM

A man approaches you with malicious intent, obviously drunk. He is larger than you, and you know instantly that he intends to attack you. For whatever reason, you haven't noticed him till its too late; so you can't instantly run away from him... What would you do?

Personally, I'd put my gaurd up (muay thai gaurd, to cover my face properly) and try and get off centre. Then I'd kick him as hard as humanly possible in the upper leg (kneecap, thigh etc), then I would run. I'm pretty proficient in low kicks/roundhouses so assuming this guy still has feeling in his legs it'd still work.

What would you guys do? What about if you had to stand and fight?

Ven

Fire! · 06-07-2006, 02:29 AM

Since he is drunk I should be able to run off after I dodge his first attack.

I would try avoiding fighting as much as possible.

Bloke · 06-23-2006, 10:01 AM

I used to be a doorman (security / Bouncer etc) and this happened one night. He was queing to get in and as he got to the door we realised how drunk he was and stopped him. So he grabs me by the front of my shirt and tries to push me back - I simply took hold of the thumb on the hand he grabbed with and bent it back on itself - he let go instantly and I escorted him off the property.

In most cases though Fire is right - dodge and run.

feels · 06-23-2006, 10:31 AM

Evade and run.

Lanky Sempai · 06-24-2006, 02:01 AM

Don't be caught up in the "what works in training will work on the street" head.
Using leg kicks in a street situation is a really good way of putting yourself in an extremely dangerous place.
Self defense has nothing to do with your training routines.
If your going to kick (which I would recommmend you NOT do) kick him in the balls, while sticking your fingers through his eye sockets into his brain.(figuratively speaking)
Whatever you do on the street make it fast, make it brutal and make it final because you don't want a large annoyed Islander getting up to have another go. Youre not there to demonstrate your skills to a packed bar, you want to get out with all your teeth, this is not the movies.

Sensation Black · 07-29-2006, 10:13 PM

the streets are not like your dojo!
imagine to slip because of the rainy underground and the man has some friends with him. there is no referee stopping him from kicking the hell out off you while you are laying on the ground.

**nzproud** · 07-31-2006, 11:35 AM

Yer I agree, run like hell. Street fighting is not worth, but defend your family/friends. Aim for their weak points.

**smoothsake** · 08-04-2006, 08:10 PM

A couple years ago in Whistler (outside Vancouver) I was standing in line with a bunch of friends to get into a bar. A drunk was being thrown out by the bouncers and the drunk was not happy. He started pushing people around and for whatever reason charged at me and pushed me into the the line of people, yelling, "What the hell are you looking at?" Fortunately his friends held him back before he could do much more damage and my friends got in front of me to demonstrate numbers. I am curious had this gone down if a groin kick would have been my best choice? It's not the most honorable way to end a fight but perhaps there is not much honor in a street fight anyway. Either way, I'd appreciate any advice. Sometimes running and evading is just not possible... what do you guys think?

Sensation Black · 08-05-2006, 04:18 PM

the groin kick would be the best decision i think.
there is no honor in a street fight or do you think the delinquient approaching you cares about honor at all.
he just searchs for a victim he can beat up and there is no honor in that so just do what you have to do to protect you, your family or your friends.

OSU

Bloke · 08-11-2006, 02:42 PM

If you have to fight forget kicking to start with. Depending on the distance go with oi tsuki or kake tsuki jodan or Zu tsuki if he is closer. Once he is dazed and there is some better distance then think about kicks.

ryudo · 11-30-2006, 01:41 AM

Look there's no such thing as honor in combat, tournament fighting is one thing and combact is completely a whole different animal.
It's the most basic lowest of our insticts, in combact anything goes you fight to survive...remeber Pearl Harbor you don't declare war, you attack, beat the enemy down and then write history...were was the honor that you talk about in hiroshima and nagasaki???
When some one attacks you in the street that person just gave you the liberty to kick the crap out of him/her...and remember is better to be sentence by 12 than be carry by 6.

Bloke · 11-30-2006, 10:45 AM

Ryudo

I think your missing the point of the original post - its not combat he talks about but how to deal with an obviously intoxicated assailant. Yes it would be easy to take out the whole arsenal and let loose the dogs of war but is it appropriate for the situation?

Bruce · 11-30-2006, 01:24 PM

Getting back to the original question I'd say:
1) don't be there in the first place - I try not to put myself in situations that this scenario would happen. I've not been in a streetfight for 20 years now and I don't want to be in another (saying that I'm out on the lash tomorrow night and sod's law it'll probaby happen!)
2) Run.
3) If I can't run, then I'd try and distract them, spit in their face, throw coins at their head, that sort of thing - then run!
4) If I have to really fight then be brutal, nut them with your head, elbows, the lot - wouldn't bother with kicks myself - as somebody else posted earlier, you really don't want to slip in the rain and have this gorilla and his mates stamping on your head 'cos you've tried something flash.

Groucho · 11-30-2006, 03:37 PM

In this particular scenario, it's likely that the booze has released our attackers inner bully...

Bullies should generally be met with a show of superior force, if you have the ability...so, since it's month's end and I've had that kind of week, my choice:

evade to his front side (love the sabaki); forcefully grab his throat, but not hard enough to break anything; modified o-soto geri, using his throat to guide him to the ground, or arched over my knee; squeeeze enough to ensure undivided attention, and say something along the lines of: "Explain to me why I shouldn't end you...right here, right now..."

Guaranteed to sober him up...

Wow, did I do too many bouncer/security jobs in uni, or what?

**Shokei Marcsui** · 11-30-2006, 06:48 PM

Being recently confronted by disgruntled people on the road during these hectic holiday seasons, my reaction to the confrontation has been much different than previously suggested.

Previously I suggested that running may be the key to avoiding this type of situation but my view point has changed slightly.

My situation:

"We were on our way to a movie and were in our neighborhod. Unaware that the lane that I was in was straight only, I signaled to get into the left turn lane to be able to get into the parking lot. I patiently waited and an opportunity presented itself so I took it and kindly waived to the car behind me for letting me in. Apparently the car behind me took offense and aggressively tailed me into the parking lot of the movie theatre. The person parked his car across from mine and preceeded to come up to my car. My girlfriend was in the passenger seat and pleaded for me not to go out.

I assessed the situation and the person to find that he was much taller than I, appeared to be a college student, and also appeared to work at the nearby record store *due to his id badge around his neck*. I got out of the car to make sure that nothing would happen and to perhaps reason with him. He was very agressive with his tone and words (my hands up in an unopposing fighting stance) and explained to him the situation and that we didn't mean to "cut him off" as he so politely put it. I suppose he didn't expect an apology and his tone went from very aggressive to apologetic and he too apologized for his reaction and went on his way."

Now my girlfriend did have some words with me about confronting the guy, but I explained to her that i was able to assess the situation and find that we weren't in danger. Had I felt that the guy was a threat I would have simply put it into first gear and zoomed off.

Avoidance at all possible, but not at the expense of life.

I believe that as a kyokushin (martial arts) practioner, training in "real" fighting conditions has conditioned all of us to assess your opponent by categories to deal with accordingly. Obviously if the assailant is drunk you can assess the situation and act accordingly, BUT if they individual is aggressive and coherent then more action is needed. Simply, "turning your back and running" should not be an option because you don't know if the aggressor is armed with a gun turning your back will keep your eyes away from the aggressor and quite possibly may end in a fatality due to your unawareness.

Just my opinon

Groucho · 11-30-2006, 09:26 PM

And a very sound opinion.

Please notethat my solution is: 1) only if fighting is a must (drunk bully...)

2) heavily influenced my it being month end and me having had a pretty crappy week.

Shokei, you handled this situation perfectly.

ryudo · 12-06-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloke

Ryudo

I think your missing the point of the original post - its not combat he talks about but how to deal with an obviously intoxicated assailant. Yes it would be easy to take out the whole arsenal and let loose the dogs of war but is it appropriate for the situation?

Meaning no disrespect, I see that you're Irish!
But don't you think that once somebody attacks you, that person or animal has already given up his rights to be treated as a human being?
I will respect everybody as long as they don't touch me (sticks and stones will brake my bones, but words will never hurt me, except if you mention my moma!). Remember in the ring and on the battle ground no enemy man is your friend.
For God's sake man, you are Irish, remeber the fighting Irish...
P.S. I think I lost the point again, is this damn violent american upbriging...

ryudo · 12-06-2006, 11:52 PM

Previously I suggested that running may be the key to avoiding this type of situation but my view point has changed slightly.

My situation:

"We were on our way to a movie and were in our neighborhod. Unaware that the lane that I was in was straight only, I signaled to get into the left turn lane to be able to get into the parking lot. I patiently waited and an opportunity presented itself so I took it and kindly waived to the car behind me for letting me in. Apparently the car behind me took offense and aggressively tailed me into the parking lot of the movie theatre. The person parked his car across from mine and preceeded to come up to my car. My girlfriend was in the passenger seat and pleaded for me not to go out.

I assessed the situation and the person to find that he was much taller than I, appeared to be a college student, and also appeared to work at the nearby record store *due to his id badge around his neck*. I got out of the car to make sure that nothing would happen and to perhaps reason with him. He was very agressive with his tone and words (my hands up in an unopposing fighting stance) and explained to him the situation and that we didn't mean to "cut him off" as he so politely put it. I suppose he didn't expect an apology and his tone went from very aggressive to apologetic and he too apologized for his reaction and went on his way."

Now my girlfriend did have some words with me about confronting the guy, but I explained to her that i was able to assess the situation and find that we weren't in danger. Had I felt that the guy was a threat I would have simply put it into first gear and zoomed off.

Avoidance at all possible, but not at the expense of life.

Just my opinon[/quote]

I never turn my back on anybody who looks agresive, and here in America specially.
For the same reason that happen to you I have had guns pointed at me, and what is even worst I did not even had a spit to throw at the other guy.
Now a days I don't even carry a pocket knife, just my hands and my wits. So I don't go looking for trouble, but if trouble comes my way I deal fully with it, and I don't give the asshole the chance to recover from it.
Eventhought your actions of restrain and self-control are admirable, I would not have gone to such an extent, I guess is just the way I live.
Here when somebody calls you, You need to answer it and let them know if they are willing to go all the way...You defenitly don't want to be punk!
Next thing that happens somebody follows you home, or work, or where you hang-out. Let me tell you a stab or shot in the back is not funny, and that's what usually happens around here.
So knowing this, just let the other guy know that if he wants to go, he will have to go all the way, and that you are ready to pay for the consecunces.

Bloke · 12-07-2006, 10:26 AM

Ryudo

I think as karateka we must assess the situation quickly and then use the most appropriate force - this is what Tadashi Nakamura said (I am paraphrasing slightly).

Let me ask you this hypothetical. You are at a party with family and a cousin becomes drunk and aggressive. He wont listen to reason and is intent on attacking - do you go all out on him? What if it was an uncle? or an Aunt?

The point I am trying to make (not very well

) is that as trained karateka we shouldnt need to use all out force - but it is nice to know that it is there. Dont get me wrong - if the situation calls for it I like to think that I will do what I have to do to survive.

And yes we are the fighting Irish - probably because we drink so much!!! How come of all the stereotypes of Irish people we rarley get the "poets and scholars" one mentioned - four nobel laureates in literature is not bad for a country this size. Just wondering.

Bruce · 12-07-2006, 07:52 PM

Bloke

Sorry to disappoint you but when I think of the Irish/Ireland I think of 3 things:1)guiness 2) Your natural flair for the written word (Yeats was one of my favourites when I studied literature many years ago) and 3) Humour. Actually number 3 is probably guiness again but humour is definately number 4.Okay this post doesn't have a great deal to do with karate so far - I'd like to add that ever since I've been doing karate I've never had to use it 'for real' - I sometimes find myself wondering what would happen if it became necessary......would it all come flooding out naturally or would I tense up because I know so many different techniques that they would swamp each other and I'd get seriously mashed up???

Bruce

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