Knife attack - no bull we need a defence that works

[EnterTheirMinds]

Part of what we do in our self-defence class, for the more advanced students, is dealing with attacks by knives. We also do practice knife-fighting, where both have fake knives and the idea is to try and disarm the other without getting too mauled up. We also do a harder training of having only 1 person have a fake knife, with the other having nothing and trying to disarm them.

Do expect to get some cuts and our sensei showed us a strategy to use if other options fail. When they attack, preferably if you have something on the forearms, such as a jacket, use that arm to block the knife attack then immediately strike in some place then try to apply a disarming technique.

It just takes practice to build up some reasonably good defence but even for myself, I'm pretty sure if I encountered that, I'd take some nasty cuts. If the attack is high on something, then it can make matters worse.

[meguro]

One thing I've noticed about my development as a knockdown fighter is that many hard-fought losses prepare you to be a better knockdown fighter. Pad drills, strength and conditioning, combinations, etc. certainly help, but it's the actual fighting that makes all the difference. With knife fighting, few people live long enough to learn from the experience. The fortunate few that do, advise us not to do it. If you're knife fighting instructor doesn't have gruesome scars to show you, he doesn't really know what he's talking about.

[BigAl]

I mentioned this in another knife defense thread, but it's worth repeating (I think, at least lol).

When I was training in traditional jujutsu, they taught us to never think of the weapon when defending against a weapon. Sounds weird, but I'll explain. If you're facing a guy with bare hands, you feel more confident than if you see a knife in his hand and think "Oh @#$%!!!" A weapon is just a way of extending the body, so in actuality your defenses shouldn't need to vary too too dramatically.

I think Gichin Funakoshi realized that when he said in one of his precepts "Think of your hands and feet as swords." Not only is that for your own benefit, so you don't go around beating up on people, but it also helps you think that if you train as if every strike you defend against could be the one to end it, you're in actuality treating it as if it was wielding a weapon at the same time.

Hope that makes sense.

[tmd]

Osu Big Al - to add to that I was told with a weopnaed attacker you have one advantage (!), you know where the attack is going to come from! It's not very likely that some one wealding a knife is gonna kick you in the bits

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by tmd

Osu Big Al - to add to that I was told with a weopnaed attacker you have one advantage (!), you know where the attack is going to come from! It's not very likely that some one wealding a knife is gonna kick you in the bits

Caveat: Unless that someone is trained. Balintawak Arnis is a fine example of a system that employs either the knife or the stick as part of a method of striking.

Kicks, strikes, traps, shoulder drops, throws, etc., are all part of the delivery for the weapon.

I hate running, but still see that as the best option if at all possible. Failing that, it is best to be armed in such a way as to create an impasse. If you are without the ability to run, and are wholly unarmed, in a position where bargaining isn't possible, then speed is probably your last line of defense.

Osu!

[tmd]

Was going to add the Caveat myself

My idea behind this thread is that all hope is lost - this is a last stand situation, your exists are blocked and you have no way out you must act. - then what do you do?

[Dent]

Osu!

Well, as someone who has been in that situation, and someone who has been surprised with a knife, I'd say controlled anger is the second biggest helper, and speed is the third.

Luck comes first. By about a mile.

Osu!

[tmd]

Quick up date on the London situation - on Thursday we had 3 fatal stabbings in 6 hours - in 24 hours 5 young men had lost their lives .

All I hear from the bleeding heart liberals in the media (etc) is that these kids are only carrying knives to defend themselves as it's becoming so common What crap. Make it a mandatory 5 years for possession and you'd get the knives of the streets in a mater of weeks, oh I almost forgot this is the law it's just hardly ever used dispite the current situation as there are too many dogooders in our legal and political systems and we've got no room in the jails so the courts are told not to send them.

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by tmd

Quick up date on the London situation - on Thursday we had 3 fatal stabbings in 6 hours - in 24 hours 5 young men had lost their lives .

the courts are told not to send them.(to jail)

That is more terrible news, TMD. It seems that the situation has become worse in only a matter of weeks.

Regarding your latter statement, I take it that children and grandchildren of those in the House of Lords are unlikely to be among the victims...?

Osu!

[DaveHath]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!

Getting close to a knife wielder is a bad idea. Smart people would stay away from a guy who is trying to kill them.

I have faced knives, and have been cut and stabbed for my trouble. Outside of protecting my family, I wouldn't take on a knife without a weapon of my own.

I've spent a long time and looked at a number of systems for knife defence, and I still believe that without a weapon, superior timing, and a complete willingness to take the life of the attacker, you could make a trip to the morgue.

IMO, overall self defence should include the avoidance skills we often talk about, and rarely practice.

Osu!

Dent, I have to agree with you completely on this. unarmed defenses against a knife is a last resort. The closer it gets the greater the risk. The greater the distance the more space to react.....One of the truths about knives that was made clear to me when I was in the Marines was that if you are going to fight with a knife you are going to get cut....probably very badly so....You need to be prepared to do grave and fatal damage to the other person and any thing you can do to keep distance between you and the blade is good....forget the complex wrist locks and disarms we learn at close range..the best way to disarm a knife is with a club or baton(distance) Strike the hand or arm making them useless....I once ended up with a very messy and painful hole in my left hand from a drunk idiot with a knife.....as we all know things in life never go as smoothly as in the dojo......I just can't think of a realistic way to train for an agitated idiot with a knife with out people getting hurt. The best thing is to stay alert and adjust your course as needed to avoid the confrontation. If cornered.....fight like a cat being shoved into a bag.......becasue it could very well be your last fight.....It should be theirs...

[tmd]

Have been thinking - now don't shoot me down - about actually having a couple of drinks before training so that people can experience how much difference this makes to reaction times etc... If anyone knows of anything that mimics the true feelings of having a drink I'd like to know what it is.

[DaveHath]

Police use an item they call "Impairment goggles" they sscrew with your focus and as a result the rest of your senses....

[seienchin]

Originally Posted by tmd

Have been thinking - now don't shoot me down - about actually having a couple of drinks before training so that people can experience how much difference this makes to reaction times etc... If anyone knows of anything that mimics the true feelings of having a drink I'd like to know what it is.

Sleep deprivation. We have been doing a lot of work in Australia trying to convince doctors not to work 24 hour shifts. The research shows that someone who has been at work continuously for 16 hours as an equivalent impairment to blood alcohol 0.05. at 24 hours it goes to 0.08.

Painful, but proven.

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by tmd

Have been thinking - now don't shoot me down - about actually having a couple of drinks before training so that people can experience how much difference this makes to reaction times etc...

Shoot you down???!!! I want to elect you!!!

Originally Posted by DaveHath

Police use an item they call "Impairment goggles" they sscrew with your focus and as a result the rest of your senses....

I think I may have these. You get a free pair around 2AM right. Goes with the 8th pint?

Originally Posted by seienchin

Sleep deprivation. We have been doing a lot of work in Australia trying to convince doctors not to work 24 hour shifts. The research shows that someone who has been at work continuously for 16 hours as an equivalent impairment to blood alcohol 0.05. at 24 hours it goes to 0.08.

Painful, but proven.

The other bits were for fun, but sleep deprivation is no joke. Car accidents due to drifting off, mistakes in the pharmacy, slow reactions and cloudy judgement in any number of critical thinking situations. I think that the drinking idea may actually be safer.

Osu!

[DaveHath]

"think I may have these. You get a free pair around 2AM right. Goes with the 8th pint? "
Dent...if you don't have a pair I know I have worn them in the past...let me see if I can find them I think they are in this case of bottles somwhere............

[Tameshigiri]

The best... I don't really like to say RUN... but get out of the place faster as you can.

If you have to defense your self I wish you luck, and for sure all the DEFENSE techniques will help you. Even I you can't apply none.

Now your Knife Self Defense will depent in who hold the knife...

A person who knows how to use it. (no much chances) or
A person who have no clue about knife fight and try to scare you.(you have a chance)

Now it's a lot people in the cemetery because they try to find the last two situations.

Again wish you luck if this happen to you.

When I see Knife self defense in youtuve or videos I think How good is the instructor and how dummy is the atacker.

Even that those knife tactics are very well to buy time during a long class, Impress your students parents or teach a nice seminar to regular people.

Last one...If I'm in that situation with out scape, I will separate most as I can from the knife, and I will look aroud for stones, sticks, chain, etc, also I will use my pants belt to help my self and I will fight thinking I can lose my life.

OSU.

OSU.

[Ziyaad]

One of my karate mentor said to me that when I face an opponent with a weapon, I have to mve quick and keep distance from him. Then I should try to neutralise his weapon or to kick him at vital points.