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07-25-2008, 11:18 AM
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#1
Some self-defence ideas and thinking. Also some sparring ideas
First off, these are only to be used if there is no way you can talk out of a fight and are in danger. Don't go trying these out randomly, they are designed for pain and will deliver it.
Second, an attacker in the street is not the same as in a dojo. For one, there are no rules. If you get taken to the ground , there's no ref to stop the fight. Also, there's no telling if the attacker(s) may have a weapon. Third, DON'T try high kicks. Think as though you're in a street. There could be gravel or it could be wet grass. Punches, elbows and sometimes knees to the face, legs are for kicks from the foot and at most, to the floating ribs. If you slip and you're doing a gedan mawashi geri, there's a greater chance you'll recover and not fall than if you did a jodan mawashi geri. Fourth, guard your head. Your chest and stomach area can take hits better than your head. If you have to, take a hit in the stomach if it'll let you give a hit to the head. Fifth, no need to be honourable. A kick to the nuts isn't honourable but then again, neither is a random attacker who may or may not be intoxicated. So, what to do if you're going to be attacked? First, put up a high guard and bend the knees slightly. See if the attacker has a weapon. If they want your money, give it to them. There's no reason to try to be a hero and go after a person with a gun or knife to get back some money. Money can be earned again, your life cannot. Also, if you can, guess if they're on drugs or alcohol. Some drugs make a person feel less pain, in which case it could be harder to stop. A groin kick certainly could work, however, let's suppose you gave them a hard kick there and they're not on the ground. Now, you've grabbed the bull by the horns and there's a high chance you will have to fight. It'd be hard to talk your way out of it. There are 2 basic "systems" of self-defence that I learn: 1) BHR (Block Hit Run) 2) NBD (Neutralize By Damage) BHR would be something like if someone grabs your shirt, you hit them, such as in the nose or nuts. NBD would be if someone grabs your shirt, you snap their wrist/arm/elbow and possibly bring them to the ground. BHR is something I think just about all of us on K4L could do. Pretty basic, just give a hard hit or two. Basic NBD could also be done, such as kicking at the knees. I'm more into NBD in my training but also do BHR. Let's say we're going to go for the knees. Kicking straight at them could work, however, that's where they're the strongest, especially when bent. From the back could work but the question is how to get in that position? The weakest areas of the knee are the sides. The inner part of the knee is weaker than the outer part, so if we are to go for it, ideally inner but outer could also work. Supposing we're barefoot (practicing or walking barefoot), we'll do something like soktu geri (however it's spelt), however, instead of hitting with the knife edge, we're going to change it up and hit with the ball of the foot to the inner part of the knee. So, to do this, we'll have to do a somewhat circular kick. For the outer part of the knee, a basic roundhouse to that area with the ball of the foot works. If you're outside and wearing shoes, this also works as your toes won't get hurt. Let's go a bit simpler: gedan mawashi geri. We want to aim on the side of the thigh using the shin. Don't simply kick at an even level, bring the shin and leg a bit above the target area then sharply kick downwards. The shin bone is sort of like a Toblerone chocolate bar. With kicking at an even level, we're not using the "sharper" or part that comes more to a ridge. If we kick up to down, then we do get this. Also, thrust your hips when you're going to hit, pushing your weight at the target area. You may not break the attacker's bone, however, they should be in some pain. I don't have a video of the various NBD techniques doing it myself but there are many all over youtube. Also, if you're in an area such as a bar, look around, pretty much anything can be a weapon, from a glass to a pepper shaker to a chair, etc... . From some of Bas Rutten's self-defence videos, as he says, if you have time, unscrew the pepper and throw it in his eyes. What's better though is hot sauce. Either take off the top and in the eyes or put some on your hands then if possible, jab him in the eyes. The important thing to remember is this: only do enough damage for either "system" to defend yourself. Anymore and it can be considered assault. Since we are martial artists, it could be assault with a weapon or assault with intent to kill. One of Bas Rutten's self-defence techniques is if someone has a knife, he shows a way to force the knife to stab the attacker while still in the attacker's hand. This I would not advise. If they have a knife, simply try to disarm, whether it involves breaking the wrist to taking them down via throw or flip then remove the weapon and discard it. If you are in a bar area or wherever, if someone has a knife, a chair can be a great weapon as a shield or to hit them with. If someone has a knife, my sensei told us this: if need be, let them slash 1 arm of yours, preferably the forearm away from the wrist and veins. Yes it may hurt but now you can land some shots, hopefully a good one. Shots to the neck area can knock them out but they can also cause unwanted damage. Let's give some situations: 1) You're in a bar and a small group of drunk men are being rowdy and want to fight you. They're all bigger and stronger than you are and all are carrying beer bottles. In this case, first try to talk your way out. Always watch their weapons (beer bottles) and quickly locate the nearest weapon you could use. Since they are drunk, their reaction time may be off and they'll be less agile (you're sober). You cannot attack them because that's assault as they haven't threatened you yet. If one of them swings, dodge the swing and either kick in the stomach to send them backwards or give a hard punch. You don't want to try and flip them because of the other drunk buddies being able to hit you. If both want to attack at the same time, move backwards and if possible, run as they cannot follow as well. If you cannot run, try to fight them 1 vs 1. 2) You're out walking and someone tries to pick your pockets. First thing is grab their hand and twist the wrist and arm. In doing this, you reduce their ability to run and hit you. They can still kick though. Let them go and back up. You are not in the right to hit them. If they advance and strike, then you are in the right to defend. Some sparring ideas 1) Chudan mae geri. This may also be used in kyokushin (i think). You have to be very fast and have good punches. Before their leg is fully extended and hits you, as it's moving, give a very hard punch just above the knee. 2) Chudan mawashi geri: Once again, need to be fast. As the kick is going, use all your weight and strength, and both hands to push above and below their knee. Keep your fingers back, not in fists. 3) If an opponent punches, hopefully DON'T block. Try to dodge. The reason is you now have 2 hands, they have 1. This won't always work, so be careful. When it does, give body shots to the liver area or kidneys. 4) For a kick, such as chudan mae geri or chudan mawashi geri, try to do a knee block. By this, I mean bring the leg up and thrust it forwards, using your knee to hit just below their knee. You could also try for the shin, although that could hurt you and possibly break their shin. If it's just below their knee, it's painful. Try poking there when the leg is extended. Not that comfortable, almost painful. Now with a lot of force, you can do either lots of injury or make it very painful. You have a small window of time to land some hard body shots or knees. 5) For chudan kicks, try to back up quickly and if possible, grab their foot/ankle area. Don't try it on the shin area. Now, you can either throw the leg to the side and go in for hits, pull the leg quickly to get them off balance and go for an ashi barai or throw the leg up, which could injure or make them fall over. 6) I learnt this the hard way, for chudan mae geri or mawashi geri, ideally for mae geri, use your elbow and hit it on the top of their foot. Gives a bruise for several days and very painful. For a mawashi geri, it depends how hard it is. Some last notes: For NBD, if you practice on a partner, tell them to say when they feel pain. If they don't tell you, you cant know. They could also tap. When doing NBD, remember, for most moves, the more you try to resist, the more painful it may be. That being said, if you don't resist, it still will be quite painful. NBDs work when in some chokes, holds, punches, kicks, grabbed on clothing or weapon attacks. If you are to practice these, practice for all. Some include odd things like being grabbed by the belt, which may seem odd but if someone grabs by the belt, they can knock you off balance pretty fast. When doing NBDs, you can sometimes go for hits but the goal is to use some NBD.
__________________
Failing to try to succeed is worse than failing to succeed. 
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07-25-2008, 11:21 AM
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#2
Example: if in a half-nelson, you can elbow the opponent, foot stomps, nose break, groin kick, etc... and then tuck your chin down so you no longer are being choked. To make it a NBD, you could bend their wrist so it could snap, flip them, make arm straight and hit elbow out, etc... .
When using NBDs in a real situation, only use 1 if there's 1 attacker. With a broken wrist, arm, elbow, whatever, they may think twice. If they continue to attack, then another may be used. Use the elbow ones if there is a weapon as those cause massive damage. Many NBDs can cause multiple damages in different places in one motion. Use these when in more dangerous situations. Pressure points can be used but if you're unsure where they may be, avoid using them in a real situation. When practicing, after a NBD has been practiced for a bit, have the attacker try to pull away or shake you or move around to make it more realistic and harder. Even in practice, NBDs can result in injuries, so be careful on that. If a NBD requires turning their hand over or wrist but the attack is too strong or big, such as they grab your hand, use a BHR. Remember, a person may have large muscles but that doesn't make their joints stronger as the joints can always be broken. If you are in a choke from behind, if possible, go for the pinky finger as it's the weakest. Bend it back and the ring finger follows usually. It's not honourable but then again, neither is someone attacking you from behind. For the ladies, if you're being attacked by a man (who may be stronger), there are: 1) Eyes 2) Nose 3) Groin 4) Knee 5) Foot You don't need to be stronger to use NBDs or BHRs, in fact, many work if you're smaller. Note: The attackers may also be trained so beware. Last note: When practicing, if you're unsure, DO SOMETHING. If it's meant to be a NBD but you cant remember the technique, use BHR instead. It's meant to be a real attack. If you do forget the NBD or cant do it, go for another or BHR.
__________________
Failing to try to succeed is worse than failing to succeed.
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07-25-2008, 01:36 PM
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#3
Osu!
I see several issues that need to be addressed here, EnterTheirMinds. 1) Trying to get a knife away from a committed attacker is very difficult. I've been trying to find a decent method, and all I'm comfortable with is a) Using a distance weapon, and b) striking him until he is no longer a threat. 2) Attacking the hands when choked is slow, and I have yet to see it work. I don't have the best grip, but the angles on chokes are such that it makes very difficult to reach the hands. 3) Laws globally vary greatly, but if the current legal set up has SD references like in most First-world countries, then some variation on a pre-emptive strike is allowed. IOW, if a group of armed men have approached, and blocked my means of escape, and it seems as though a confrontation is about to occur, then I am within my rights to strike first. (And even if I wasn't, I'd still do it. I'm not risking umpteen stitches, a few broken bones, or maybe even death, just to make some law enforcement official happy.) If I have already been assaulted, then physical defense may be an acceptable avenue. Restraining criminals is also legal in many places. Osu!
__________________
Train hard, train often! Look. Listen. Sweat!
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07-27-2008, 01:07 AM
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#4
Just a comment.
Don't underestimate bites. They surprise and cause more pain than most, if not all, other forms of attack. Great for having someone let go of you.
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07-27-2008, 09:11 AM
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#5
Quote:
And if you are bitten, it is also an exposure-prone situation, meaning you should seek medical advice immediately, and you may need to go on medicines to reduce the risk of picking up a blood-borne virus.
__________________
Wisdom prevents mistakes. But you have to make mistakes to get the wisdom. 
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07-27-2008, 09:17 AM
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#6
Quote:
Your points are pretty good but it's nice to be aware of your options.
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07-27-2008, 10:55 AM
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#7
Osu!
Quote:
 Osu!
__________________
Train hard, train often! Look. Listen. Sweat!
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07-27-2008, 11:46 AM
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#8
Quote:
Quote:
Interestingly, the commonest bite site treated in at least one study in emergency departments was the ear. I guess there were a lot of Mike Tyson copy cats out there during that time!!!
__________________
Wisdom prevents mistakes. But you have to make mistakes to get the wisdom.
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07-27-2008, 02:44 PM
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#9
Osu!
I think any bits that stick out are going to be fair game in a real fight. Anyone seen the old patio fights from Brazil? I remember one where a guy tried to escape a bad position through biting. Problem was, the other guy had much better position, and bit the lobe clean off his ear! Osu!
__________________
Train hard, train often! Look. Listen. Sweat!
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07-27-2008, 07:23 PM
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#10
Its also worth remembering that once you are in a situation where you are under threat we will revert to gross motor skills - you need to be very calm and focussed to put on wrist locks etc and the only way to get that calm is to be put in that situation regularly (as in law enforcement etc) which most of us wont get.
__________________
BOOK, DID SOMEONE SAY BBBBOOOOKKKK!!!!
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07-27-2008, 09:17 PM
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#11
Osu!
Quote:
Osu!
__________________
Train hard, train often! Look. Listen. Sweat!
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07-27-2008, 10:38 PM
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07-28-2008, 08:30 AM
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#13
I agree that the post has some sound advise but it also raises some serious points and as with all Self Defense analysis some arguments; for example you say don't block (in capitals no less!) but dodge? When I train I use blocks as well as deflective movement - I will stick with this thanks as Bloke has said in these situations you are working on Motor Skills, learned responses, and secondly it can lead to a grab or take down. I have a couple of knife defense's I practice at lease once a week for this very reason, they may not be the best but the more I practice them the more likely they are to work in an emergency. PS I will never intentionally let them cut my arm to set up my own attack, if it happens which is likely I know then so be it but I would not seek it out, the shock could distract you as could the sight of your own blood.
In your Scenario you're in a pub, they're all drunk but you're not? Is this completely realistic? At the point of attack which in my opinion is them approaching me with intent - you will get the rush of you know what to get you going, this does undo some of the damage done by your own consumption but not all of it so again stick to basics but do not discount anything based on preemptive assumption of what will and won't work - I know this will seem lame but it was a real situation about 20 years ago - I went to visit a mate of mine who'd moved down to Brighton - I'd just done a competition the weekend before and my mate was asking me about it - some of his new mates decided it would be a great idea to show off to the girl friends by beating up the karate guy - As I left the bar a couple of them tried to rush me with about a dozen or so following on behind, as they began to close in I dropped one with a spinning back kick and the other with a Mawashigeri followed by a straight to the jaw, I got some verbal from the group as they helped up their buddies but no one followed us or tried anything else, I did hear that they reported me to the Police but I heard nothing more. I'm not saying this will happen all the time but they knew I had some ability and in showing them I could use it it made them think about how much they wanted to hurt me in relation to the risk they faced of getting hurt. One of the first things you should be assessing is why are they attacking me? There is a range of difference responses depending on whether they want your wallet or your life.
__________________
All things are relative even Power & Truth 
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07-28-2008, 11:04 AM
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#14
Osu!
Good, clear, and well thought out post, TMD. Osu!
__________________
Train hard, train often! Look. Listen. Sweat!
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07-28-2008, 11:18 AM
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#15
Quote:
Not for me - no  Good post though TMD Entertheirminds I hope you dont think we are being overly critical - just discussing the points you have brought up (it was just as I read back I felt it could look like we were saying that everything you said is wrong which is not the case)
__________________
BOOK, DID SOMEONE SAY BBBBOOOOKKKK!!!!
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07-28-2008, 01:15 PM
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#16
Quote:
Excuse-me for my ignorance, but what a patio fight is? Do you have the link for this video?....As you described, it seens to be a very cool video.... Tks OSSU!!!!
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07-28-2008, 02:44 PM
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#17
Osu! Quote:
They were challenge matches or money fights, and fairly bloody affairs. No protection, and usually at somebody's home. I haven't seen them on Youtube, but if they are on |