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[Noahh]

I was recently drawn into a conversation about self defence. In it some one said "But of course being a black belt you would hold back, wouldn't you?"

To which I said flatly "No, I would never hold back"

There are obvious exceptions to that rule, when the attacker is fall down drunk, or a friend, or a drunk friend.

This is not the first time I've encountered this expectation and it is often reflected in media. Where a martial artist is involved in self defence situation. There seems to be an expectation that we should some how gently subdue our attacker. A double standard??

These are the thoughts that guide me,

Despite being a martial artist, I am one lucky punch away from unconsciousness. Accordingly one punch from being stomped on the ground and suffering brain injury or worse. Why should I chance that to ensure the safety of an idiot who has attacked me. I will put them away as quickly as possible by the means that present at the time.

Why should I be concerned for their safety, they have disregarded mine.

I am going home to my two little girls, what ever happens.

It may be shitty luck they attacked someone who knows what he is doing, how would it be better if I didn't.

I'm certainly not condoning the use of lethal force I just don't see a place for, "I'm only going to use half my power so I don't really hurt him?"eek:

Perhaps martial artists have done this to themselves. The public having this belief we are so much stronger and faster. We should be able to disarm our opponent and restrain him without use of "excessive force".

In my experience the time you miss a break is the time you think "It's only 3 boards" or "I probably only need to hit the bat with half my power." Self defence has potential parallels. You choose to only hit with half your power, don't knock him out and find a knife between your ribs.


Finally the words of a sempai and now good friend guide me.

"Better to be judged by twelve, then carried out by six"

I am keen to hear others thoughts, and experiences.

Would you exercise restraint?

Do you suggest your students do?



This whole discussion is of course hypothetical. We are all in agreement the best course of action is prevention or avoidance.

[FredInChina]

Interesting thread Noah, I am also curious to hear comments and see different points of view

Osu!

[Ros]

I don't know how rationally anyone would be thinking in a self-defense situation and therefore whether it would be possible to consciously only use half-power or whatever.

In English law you are allowed to use 'reasonable force' to defend yourself, the question then is what is reasonable force? I would think to incapacitate someone who is attacking you is reasonable. To lay into them once they are incapacitated probably isn't. I have no idea how I'd react in such a situation though!

[halcyon]

Originally Posted by FredInChina

Interesting thread Noah, I am also curious to hear comments and see different points of view

Osu!

I'm with Fred here. Definitely wanna know what others think about this.

Personally I completely agree with you Noah. Of course, at any time I'm able to escape the situation without needing to worry the attacker might follow me and attack again I would make sure I'd leave and not stay and fight.

"The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly." Might be a bit of a cliched quote from Roosevelt, but I figured it was pretty relevant. My point is, if you hold back the chance you won't succeed goes up significantly and you'll probably only aggravate the attacker.

Some people have a misconception of the powers of martial arts and the fancy movements and techniques, when in fact the power in martial arts lies mostly in attitude and spirit; the art of giving it your all.

Just the way I look at things.

Osu!

[Dent]

Osu!

No.

If the situation has become so bad as to require violence, then it's all in. I avoid it if at all possible, but my first responsibility is to my family. Not anyone else.

Osu!

[Hangtime]

Interesting topic indeed:

I predict: Dent, Gary, Kanku, PO1, maybe Spirt = "Absolutely not"


Personally, I can't say...I just don't know how I'll react "in the moment"...

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by Hangtime

I predict: Dent, Gary, Kanku, PO1, maybe Spirt = "Absolutely not"

Personally, I hope that all our Forum members reply that way, Hangtime. You have Trunks and Overboard at home. They need you more than you need to consider options, or think of creative solutions, and certainly more than following societal norms.

I ask that we all recognize that the Arthurian ideals and white hats in 50's Westerns never existed outside of fantasy. Medieval warfare was brutal, and more men were gunned down from behind than ever saw a duel at high noon.

I have made a decision not to romanticize self-defense. Because I know what can happen when things go wrong, I want to be mentally prepared to defend myself.

Osu!

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by Dent

Personally, I hope that all our Forum members reply that way,(...)

I have made a decision not to romanticize self-defense. Because I know what can happen when things go wrong, I want to be mentally prepared to defend myself.

Well said Sir!
Osu!


And I also was allowed to rep you!

[Hangtime]

Originally Posted by Dent

Personally, I hope that all our Forum members reply that way, Hangtime. You have Trunks and Overboard at home. They need you more than you need to consider options, or think of creative solutions, and certainly more than following societal norms.

I agree, but like Sandman, I've never been in that position and hope to never. I pointed you guys out because you've been in those situations, dealt with them and understand their consequences...I "already know" where you all stand.

I make it a point to ask police officers or people involved with criminal justice "how much is too much..." and I think I have a firm understanding of that; nonetheless, I just don't know how I'll react, so it's hard to say (and I hope it stays that way).

OSU!

[sandman]

I've never been in a fight, and hope I never have to be. If I can avoid it safely that will always be my first choice. However if there is no other option I want to do what it takes to keep that guy from being able to attack me again. Again, not having ever been in the situation its hard to say how I would actually react. But when I think about it now I'd want to do whatever it takes to remove the threat. I'm not saying beating him with a baseball bat after he's already down and out, just saying I'd want to go full force until I know he can't or won't try to attack me again.

[Ros]

Originally Posted by sandman

But when I think about it now I'd want to do whatever it takes to remove the threat. I'm not saying beating him with a baseball bat after he's already down and out, just saying I'd want to go full force until I know he can't or won't try to attack me again.

Incapacitate then run away sounds good to me! (Hopefully training with Gary has given me the means to do both! )

[sandman]

Originally Posted by Ros

Incapacitate then run away sounds good to me! (Hopefully training with Gary has given me the means to do both! )

Yes - the running away part works for me too! Just want to do what I can to keep him from being able to catch me first

[epking1]

Im keeping quiet on this one! as 11 months on Police Bail will make you go a bit quiet like that.

Untill a situation happens to you, you can only comment on what it might be like.

Walk away at all costs!!!! its not worth the hassle.






The outcome was "Not Guilty" by the way, incase you were wondering

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by epking1

(...) Walk away at all costs!!!! its not worth the hassle.
(...)

Sound advice from personal experience EPKing.
Repped!
Osu!


...& the rep police again!

[Hangtime]

Originally Posted by epking1

Im keeping quiet on this one! as 11 months on Police Bail will make you go a bit quiet like that.

I think this tells us all we need to know, lol. So does knocking a Vegas cop senseless

OSU!

[epking1]

Originally Posted by FredInChina

Repped!
Osu!


...& the rep police again!

grrrr

Originally Posted by Hangtime

So does knocking a Vegas cop senseless [/size][/color]

OSU!

That was my FRIEND Honest, Rocket confirmed this to be truth



My Gravestone will read "Always In The Wrong Place At The Wrong Time"

[Hangtime]

Originally Posted by epking1

grrrr

You have been taken care of my friend

Originally Posted by epking1

That was my FRIEND Honest, Rocket confirmed this to be truth

Sorry, my memory isn't always what I want it to be

Originally Posted by epking1

My Gravestone will read "Always In The Wrong Place At The Wrong Time"

LOL! I'd rep you for that if I hadn't just...

JCBel - I wouldn't call it a neutral stance (or at least in my case); I just don't know. I could go absolutely ape s**t or I could hit the assailant once and immediately sit him down and ask someone to go get him some ice...I just don't know. I could sit here and tell how you how I'd react, but I don't really know.

[Jinkiro]

Just like animals, our core instinct is to survive. You wouldn't see a wolf avoiding biting another's throat, and when your life is on the line (especially when others are depending on you) then you shouldn't be holding back either. If our training makes it harder for us to survive by making us feel obligated to exercise restraint then we're wasting our time.

Unless you are SURE you have another way out of the situation, fight back until you make one, and not a moment sooner.

Just my two cents haha :P

[Billy no mates]

I you feel able to just pitter patter about with a would be assailant then i would make so bold as to say you probably shouldn't be fighting at all...ive never ever felt like i had the luxury of doing that im just not so conceited as to assume i had that measure of superiority over anyone .
If you absolutely have to fight then give it all you've got,half measures are not an option .

[Rocket]

It was 100% Not EPKing, I think if you give the Cop the choice of getting kicked in the head by EPKing or his Friend, The cop would choose to get kicked in the head by EPKing 100/100 times, but unfortunatley for him he got kicked in the head by the friend.