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[majdi4]

Dear Members,

I would appreciate it If you help with the answers the these questions.

1- There are a number Kyokushin organizations that represent the Kyoukushin karate. which one of these organizaitons seem to be the closest to the teachings of Master OYAMA? in other words, do they follow the same curriculum for Kyokushin Karate?

2- In karate in general, the emphasis is on strikes and punches. what about grappling, joint locks, throwing, using weapons and defending against weapons? Does Kyokushin karate include these self defense techniques in its training? some one told me that it is hidden in the kata. how accurate is that?

3- BUNKAI. what does it mean?

Thank's,
MJ

[ksan]

Originally Posted by majdi4

Dear Members,

I would appreciate it If you help with the answers the these questions.

1- There are a number Kyokushin organizations that represent the Kyoukushin karate. which one of these organizaitons seem to be the closest to the teachings of Master OYAMA? in other words, do they follow the same curriculum for Kyokushin Karate?

2- In karate in general, the emphasis is on strikes and punches. what about grappling, joint locks, throwing, using weapons and defending against weapons? Does Kyokushin karate include these self defense techniques in its training? some one told me that it is hidden in the kata. how accurate is that?

3- BUNKAI. what does it mean?

Thank's,
MJ

1) All the organisations who call themselves kyokushin also try and follow the curriculum as designed by sosai, so, the IFK, the IKO`s, the Union, Shinkyokushin all follow what they were thaught by sosai. Please mind that some instructors were trained in different era`s in honbu which will explain small differences in what they teach (only small ones)

2) Selfdefence is included, or should be included in all dojo`s (not only kyokushin)

3) Bunkai is (to put it short) the explanation behind the techniques used in kata...

Osu

[Paedde]

Originally Posted by majdi4

Dear Members,

I would appreciate it If you help with the answers the these questions.

1- There are a number Kyokushin organizations that represent the Kyoukushin karate. which one of these organizaitons seem to be the closest to the teachings of Master OYAMA? in other words, do they follow the same curriculum for Kyokushin Karate?

Can't help you with this one, I think other members of K4L can give you better information here.

Originally Posted by majdi4

2- In karate in general, the emphasis is on strikes and punches. what about grappling, joint locks, throwing, using weapons and defending against weapons? Does Kyokushin karate include these self defense techniques in its training? some one told me that it is hidden in the kata. how accurate is that?

For the hidden techniques read the next answer.
We do sometimes self-defense techniques and train the head punches which we don't do in sparring with pads. Sparring is with tournament rules.

Originally Posted by majdi4

3- BUNKAI. what does it mean?

Bunkai is the teaching or discovering of the hidden techniques in the kata. I got told for what the moves are while learning the kata and it really helps to understand the kata.

I hope I was able to help you, else the more experienced users here can help you out for sure.

[kakatootoshi]

Dear majdi4,
Welcome to this forum. As a tradition, do not forget to introduce yourself at the introduction forum.

1) I am not able to answer this question. Sometimes when we see fighters from organization A fight in MMA, fighters from organization B can do face punching in their tournaments and people start commenting that this or that is "closer" to the teachings of Sosai. I think first of all, the expression of Kyokushin syllabus mostly depends on the Sensei and what the elite fighters are doing do not necessarily represent what students are being taught at the dojos. Even graded under the same organizations, the quality of students can vary to a considerable extent under the teachings of different Sensei. And second, face punching or no face punching in Kyokushin tournaments these all existed in Sosai's times and we cannot say this is "authenic" and that is not. As I have said the expression of syllabus mostly comes down to the interpretation of each Sensei, if you want to learn Kyokushin as close as possible to the teachings of Oyama Sosai, I am afraid to only way is to learn from one of his direct students.

2)You are right about Karate in general but there are also some Karate styles that do a lot of grappling and other stuff that you mention in their fighting tournaments. In Kyokushin yes these things (Goshin Jitsu, or self-defense techniques) are also taught in many dojos but in my observation the emphasis is still on other things like Kumite. Yes Kata does contain elements of Goshin Jitsu but it is open for interpretations so it is like a rough diamond that needs that requires good cutting.

3)The Japanese words of "Bunkai" means "to break down and dissolve". In the Kyokushin context it basically refers to the interpreation and application of Kata movements.

OSU!

[Martin H]

Originally Posted by majdi4

2- In karate in general, the emphasis is on strikes and punches. what about grappling, joint locks, throwing, using weapons and defending against weapons? Does Kyokushin karate include these self defense techniques in its training? some one told me that it is hidden in the kata. how accurate is that?

There are a incredible amount of information hidden in kata. Most of it involve grabbing and self defense -and no kumite or "dueling" situation.
There are also many things that can be interpreted as pure grappling. However there is a problem with how much freedom you take with the kata move in order to get it to work as a grappling move. The katas has been polished and refined for purely astethic purposes for so long, by people with little or no interest in grappling, that the original purposes of a move may have been lost, and reinventing becomes a question of interpretation and oppions. Much throwing and jointlock applications from kata are obvious when you know the techniques, but it is easy to take a similarity to a grappling move too far.
Also the grappling you CAN find in kata are NOT on the level with pure grappling arts like judo or BJJ. It is more like a base course for beginners.

check out Iain Abernethy if you want to get more into bunkai and kata as grappling/ realistic self defense. He is a wado ryu guy so much of his katas differ slightly from kyokushin, but his way of thinking and training is good.

Iain Abernethy is one of the leading exponents of applied karate, Bunkai and Kata

Originally Posted by kakatootoshi

Dear majdi4,

3)The Japanese words of "Bunkai" means "to break down and dissolve". In the Kyokushin context it basically refers to the interpreation and application of Kata movements.

OSU!

Worth mentioning is that many karate styles differ between Bunkai and Oyo.
Bunkai being the process of breaking down a kata into application and analyzing it.
Oyo being the actual application and training them in realistic situations.
Basically, you do bunkai to find a good oyo.

But in kyokushin we usually only say bunkai for both, and do preciously little of either.

[andy83]

Majdi4,
1 - Kyokushin is Kyokushin, everywere, and the group split (IKO1-IKO2-IKO3 and so on) is happened only for politics or personal reasons, but you stay sure that all the people who dressed Kanji on their chest are pure Kyokushin, and to can dressing that Kanji or Kanku nowadays, the Kancho of that certain group of which people are joined in, was a Sosai Oyama directly student, or had black belt from him. So you can't wrong about this.
Anyway, one group can make some kata in different ways that another one, having better teachers than another one, but the Kyokushin Way is the same.
2 - Karate Kyokushin is proprely this: strike the body. Anyway some kind of Kyokushin derivate styles like Kyokushin Budokai, Seidokaikan and others, apply grappling, Judo techniques, clinches for some seconds, punches in the face. But in a Kyokushin fighting there aren't of same techniques.
Self defence and weapons there're in Kyokushin, but it's quite a dojo's or a teacher's prerogative.
3 - Bunkai is the "real application" of one kata on one or lots of attacks.

[Spirit]

MJ,

Syllabus:

NO Kyokushin org or group really follows the original syllabus of Mas Oyama {not even Mas Oyama himself}, it has changed (as all systems do, no matter what style). Even Oyama changed it several times in the course of the decade's that he developed Kyokushin, either dropping or adding Kata, techniques and or ideologies etc... Karate is ongoing and in constant flux!!!

One should seek out an Instructor that they click with or feel good with, that is more important than the style....
Remember you are not joining a group (as a beginner you have no say or knowledge as to what is going on in a group or even need to have cause to wonder,. Some members never meet or have contact with the heads of the groups their whole time in a groups 5, 10 30 years so forget about what group I should join) YOU are joining a Dojo!

Early Kyokushin did have many joint locks, grappling, and throws in its syllabus (50's - 60's), but pointed out earlier things change constantly...in-fact all Karate styles had/was joint locks, grappling, and throws before it was brought to the people 110 or so years ago...

MMA is the latest driving force behind Martial Arts the past 5 or so years, and as it passes so will another changing force come into play in M/A's. If you wish to learn Karate, then seek a dojo that teaches Karate. If you seek to fight in MMA or other types of fighting groups then seek out a gym that focuses on that and forget Karate!

Weapons:

As for weapons, Kyokushin did not go down that road (Kubudo or simple put, weapons) Though many did add weapons into their own Dojo's or organizations syllabus.

BUNKAI:

Bunkai, is the true use of the techniques in the kata... i.e. as a beginner you are taught that we block then strike in the kata's, yet the true meaning of the blocks are joint locks, grapples, and throws... Kata is implied actions... Bunkai is actual action...

Summary:

It seems that you are interested in Kyokushin, before getting locked into what you think you may see, read or hear about Kyokushin, first go to each Dojo (no matter style) and speak with each Sensei. get a feel for him/her and watch several classes in each dojo. If this takes you 1 week or 1 year it is better to do your research and make your best judgment as to where to spend your money and time learning from your own best judgment, rather than be drawn into something that is not really their do to marketing, gossip, talk, print or friend ...

If you do find Karate as a true calling, that is excellent, and if it just so happens to end up Kyokushin then that is good to.
Remember all styles are equal, non better than each other... It is the instructor(s) and their ability to "TEACH", key word hear.
Just because someone is a champion or was many students etc does not necessarily make him/her a good teacher. It could mean that they are good business man or woman!!!

[seienchin]

Majdi4 - Welcome to K4L. Why don't you go to the introductions forum, and start a thread there, to tell us a little about yourself?
Again - welcome. I hope you are finding the answers you are receiving to be helpful.

[majdi4]

Thank you all for the great answers. your answers have realy clarified lot's of things about Kyokushin style.

[EddieP]

MOD EDIT

Eddie P,. I can't allow this post, as it breaks rule #2 of the forum rules