»

[AcadianShadow]

Well most likely a circus animal or tamed,both most likely prisoners held against there will or animals that were save?humm People have fought bears successfully as self defense,just the other day a woman around here charged and hit a bear that was attaching her dog,she got a few cuts and the bear when off,she would do it all over again.

[supergroup7]

Evergrey, From what I could see, I believe that Mr. Williams was not striking the bear with full force. ( Neither with his hands, nor his feet ) I've seen some videos of what Mr. Williams could do when sparring.. and the Mawashi Geri that he sent to the bear was not the same at all. I noticed that when the punches/kicks hit the bear there was no unbalancing of the bear from his/her upright position ( no movement, or adjusting of the bear's center of balance) The bear didn't look too secure holding that standing up position from the beginning. It wouldn't have taken much force to make it go down onto it's four paws.. so I am guessing that Mr Williams was "sparring" with full technique but pulling back the force so the bear could stay standing as long as possible.

[Evergrey]

I figured it was drugged. So it was trained? Heh. Hopefully, then, he was pulling his strikes as well.

[Lonewolf]

Osu! Sensei Willie Williams was just doing what he was ordered to do. They wanted to bring him out to the Japanese people as a "Super Kyokushin Karate Fighter", and thought this would be a good way to do it. Actually, they told Sensei Willie that the bear he would be fighting only weighed 300 pounds, so he didn't worry about it too much while he was in training. Se

Sensei Willie didn't see the actual bear they had waiting for him until the day of the match. It was too late for him to back out then, and I know for a fact that he was very nervous about the whole situation. He didn't even have a plan or strategy for fighting a bear, he just threw himself out there and tried. But, being the kind of man he was, he did what he was ordered to do. The result was this video that is taken from the second documentary movie on Kyokushin called "THE STRONGEST KARATE Part 2". He could have lost his life or got seriously injured messing around with that wild bear. Nobody even thinks about that.

I think people should remember that it was a very different time in the 1970's and Kyokushin was much more honorable and respectful. A Sensei's word was absolute law and you did not question them, you simply did as you were told. This is an important concept from Japanese culture and philosophy as far back as the days of the Samurai. I am not not saying things were better then or worse, just that it was the way it was. Kyokushin has really changed alot in the last 30 years. Osu!

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Honestly I think beating up a drugged wild animal is a d*ck move (...)

LOL... you must be from California...
All I see are two beasts having a bit of fun!

[edit] @lonewolf, it doesn't look like a wild bear to me... very tame. Sensei Williams is visibly holding his punches & kicks too

Osu!

[BigAl]

Oyama fighting bulls and Williams fighting a bear both probably aren't acceptable by today's standards, but this was almost 40 years ago. Different times, different standards.

I sure wouldn't want to be in Willie's place, that's for sure!

[Honeybadger]

Osu I agree with Lone wolf training in the 70s was completely different from now. We had blind obedience to our instructors and If you were told to fight a bear you just said osu and did it. I remember beach training and the black belts were on the beach looking out towards us in the surf with our backs to the waves doing basics and nearly drowning whilst being swept of Bondi beach towards New Zealand. But we did it. Political correctness has infiltrated Kyokushin and the bear fight would not happen today Osu

[Evergrey]

I don't see it so much as political correctness as I do personal ethics. I am driven to defend and protect the innocent. Hard for an animal to have something like this explained to it, and hard for it to express consent.

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I don't see it so much as political correctness as I do personal ethics. I am driven to defend and protect the innocent. Hard for an animal to have something like this explained to it, and hard for it to express consent.

THAT bear did not look innocent to me! How do you know?





Osu!

[kanku]

Originally Posted by GJEC

LOL

Have you ever noticed (0:34) there's always a 'friend' happy to start a fight who then only wants to hold your jacket when it all kicks off?

I bet Willie Williams was glad the bear was in a good mood, but fair play to him for even going near it in the first place!

Man v Bear for real seems a terminally bad idea.

Gary

Yes, it it`s not a good idea to take a bear on, man v bear...i agree a terminally bad idea!!

But at least there were no claw marks involved but it did have a grizzly end

[bobh]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I don't see it so much as political correctness as I do personal ethics. I am driven to defend and protect the innocent. Hard for an animal to have something like this explained to it, and hard for it to express consent.

I think we all agree this was (or at least is) in poor taste. See all original posts.

But, do we arrest a bear that eats a person? How about a deer? A fish?

Is sport fishing ethical?

Is hunting ethical?

Eating meat?

Or only with consent?

[sandman]

Originally Posted by bobh

I think we all agree this was (or at least is) in poor taste. See all original posts.

But, do we arrest a bear that eats a person? How about a deer? A fish?

Self defense laws apply. If the bear, deer or fish break into your house and attempt to kill you, you can kill them first. But you better make sure you finish the job or they might sue you.

[meguro]

Originally Posted by bobh

Is sport fishing ethical?

Is hunting ethical?

Eating meat?

Or only with consent?

I like to eat fish as well as meat, but I must confess that I don't give too much thought as to how it gets from the wild (or farm) to my plate. On rare occasion I get to eat game meat or fish that I've caught. Mostly, it's store bought. Consenting prey probably have something wrong with them, best to not eat the meat.

Putting myself in the animals' place for a moment, how pissed off would I be if I bit into a burger only to get treble hooked? WTF?! Or how about getting shot in the lungs for approaching what looks like an attractive female at the local Friday night watering hole- Come here often? BOOM!

Originally Posted by sandman

Self defense laws apply. If the bear, deer or fish break into your house and attempt to kill you, you can kill them first. But you better make sure you finish the job or they might sue you.

The castle doctrine may also apply to four legged (finned) intruders. Any wild animal that breaks into your house is fair game, but just in case make sure you put a knife in its paw, hoof, or fin after you shoot it.

On Willie Williams vs the bear, a wild one would have either run away or ripped Willie into bite size pieces. This bear looked like someone's pet and used to playful human interaction.

[49ers1970]

Osu!

I met Willie Williams at Soshu's 60th birthday party in Manhattan back in 1996.

A very nice man and a Gentle Giant. As a karate fighter, simply Awesome!

However, this fight was obviously staged. The same rules that apply to other

people, also apply to Willy. If you want to kill a Bear, buy a gun, period.

Osu!

[Evergrey]

OSU, I will kill to eat, and I have. I don't draw it out though- I kill in the fastest, most painless fashion I can. If it were practical in this area, I would get all my meat directly myself, raising stock and hunting.

That's a far cry from a publicity stunt.

[Dent]

Osu!

Oh, how soon we forget.......

History viewed through today's lens is distorted. Unless we are willing, and able, to see events as they appeared to the people of the time, we can't judge their actions with any accuracy.

Osu!

[Spirit]

It was a circus bear
My instructor was their and he also (at a different time and place) fought (attempted too) a bear.

Originally Posted by AcadianShadow

Well most likely a circus animal or tamed.