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[Ros]

Originally Posted by seienchin

Doctors have these rules, nurses have these rules, teachers have these rules, lawyers have them.....why do we think martial arts instructors should have a free reign?

Because a martial arts instructor/adult martial arts student is a completely different relationship, that's why.

Medical professional/patient, teacher/student and lawyer/client are completely different kettles of fish where the final outcome of the relationship needs to be absolutely professional.

I wouldn't expect to go to a cake-decorating class (just an example of a hobby! ) and be told I couldn't see the person running the class if we both wanted to, would you?

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by Ros

(...) a cake-decorating class (just an example of a hobby! ) (...)

Ooooooooooh.... (grabbing his calendar to fit in a trip to the UK!)


OSu!

[jcarmello]

Osu,

First off I want to thank Gary for being the stand up guy he is. I never question your integrity and have always maintained the highest respect for your opinions, knowledge and overall maturity through these threads. We may not always agree, but I agree much more with you then I do my wife.......and I married her.

Likewise, I met my wife through my work. Interestingly the employment agreement I signed back when I started (before I became a partner had a very definite "No Fraternizing" section in it. It would be a certain level of hypocrisy if I criticized how and when "consenting adults" can get together.

But if you consider that very statement...."consenting adults" you will probably find intelligent people whom which can function around a rule set and handle things appropriately. So the list of rules that Seienchin put forth can actually be functional guidelines to help folks out overall. This is not GOVERNMENT REGULATION. It is an attempt to set a standard to reduce any negative stereo types of karateka and the dojo that are perpetuated by News articles.

I am not sure we are all on the same page here. Setting rues is one way of approaching the situation.......but there must be some serious discussion in what to look for and how to make determinations. Rules will be broken by everyone in some shape or form during their life. Few of us will go to the extreme to out and out destroy another human with wanton disregard.

I know for a fact, Gary and a few others on these threads have put their lives on the line to save the lives of others.......that were nearly taken by those who tried to hurt folks.

How do we spot them, identify them, look for clues or nuances that may need to be red flags.

How do we prevent falsely accusing someone and ruining their career and family life.

Seienchin and Ashiharakaicho have put forward some well thought out guidelines, I am curious to hear from our L.E.O. folks on what they can contribute. We also have school teachers and a broad spectrum of folks who can participate in this discussion.

If simple awareness is all that is brought to light with this thread then maybe we all benefit.

Osu!

[sandman]

Perhaps the issue comes about because some people do (rightly or wrongly) view karate as more than a hobby. Personally, I see it the same way you do Gary. Karate is important to me - it keeps me fit, provides a challenge, offers the chance to spend good quality time with people I like, etc... - but in the end its not as important as family and the job. Problem is that some people don't keep it in perspective that way. Some folks will latch on to karate training with religious fervor and put their instructors up on a pedestal. And even worse, some instructors are all too happy to stand on that pedestal and take advantage of the situation.

There is no doubt in my mind that in your classes your words and actions make it clear that you don't wish to be treated that way - that its all for fun and a challenge. If only everyone would take the same approach

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by sandman

Perhaps the issue comes about because some people do (rightly or wrongly) view karate as more than a hobby.

I've been going back and forth on this post, Sandman. Could you please clarify?

Osu!

[sandman]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!



I've been going back and forth on this post, Sandman. Could you please clarify?

Osu!

Now that you mention it I can see how it needs a clarification. What I mean is that some people approach karate with an almost religious zeal and are prone to seeing their instructor as some all-powerful being rather than just a normal person who happens to teach karate. These people may be easier targets for an unscrupulous instructor.

I also tend to think that, like it or not, this type of idol worship is far, far more common in the karate dojo than in chef school.

That's not to say that this applies to everyone who views karate training as more than just a hobby.

[Dent]

Osu!

Thanks, Sandman! Big difference to me in this post and the original.

Originally Posted by sandman

I also tend to think that, like it or not, this type of idol worship is far, far more common in the karate dojo than in chef school.

Maybe chef school, but I've worked in a few restaurants, and as far as real kitchens go, some consider themselves about 1/512 of an inch away from God. And sometimes I wonder which is supposed to be on top.

Osu!

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by Dent

(...) as far as real kitchens go, some consider themselves about 1/512 of an inch away from God. And sometimes I wonder which is supposed to be on top.

ROFL ---- Ask JCarmello, he knows them all!


OSu!

[hizacrazy]

For me, since we are such a young dojo, I ask that one parent be present to observe all classes. This covers me as the instructor, and it also gives families a valid point of view in their child's classes. While it may seem a bit much to ask a parent to sit in and observe class, I do offer a slight declination in their monthly fee (for their time) and do rotate so that the same parent only observes classes once every other month or so. Here in the US, this is actually my biggest concern as injuries and such are pretty much expected (to a degree) by families.

[Dent]

Osu!

An update on Harry Cook:

http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-e...1634-30136475/

Osu!

[meguro]

This is very disturbing. I never would have suspected the man had such a seamy dark side.

[bobh]

He will have ample opportunity to test his karate now. He might have to remain in special protective custody.

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by bobh

He might have to remain in special protective custody.

Bobh brings up an interesting question. Does the UK have separate sections for this kind of offender?

Osu!

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by Dent

(...) Does the UK have separate sections for this kind of offender?

Yes, they lock them up in the showers...





Osu!

[wullie]

he's been found guilty and jailed for 10 years

here's a link to the story-
http://www.martialnews.co.uk/story1.html

[seienchin]

This is a very disturbing story, and whilst this is justice done, it won't do much to help the survivors of the abuse. However, I am also realistic - if prevention were easy, we'd have cracked this decades ago. Humans are programmed to establish trusting relationships - it is how we survive. And predators are programmed to exploit the trust. UGH!

Thanks for posting the closing lines to this sorry story Wullie.

[jcarmello]

One of the most disturbing issues regarding prisoner profiles in this country (USA) is the amount of them that had been sexually molested as children and the rage they carry. A predator will need special protections.........as it won't matter how proficient you are in M.A. s.......a groupp of rage trumps an individual everytime!!