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[Paedde]

Do you use Foot Sweepes in Kumite? (Ashi Barai, Ushiro Ashi Barai)
Do you get Points with them? If, under which circumstances? (Following Technique?)
What do you think about FS in Kumite?

Feel free to discuss

[Martin H]

I dont think Ive ever seen points (wazari) actually awarded in kyokushin (of any faction) for a footsweep with followup. They are supposed to give point, but I have never seen it happen.
Also it is annoying that you are not allowed to do the followup with a kick, but have to do it with a punch. A foot stomp or gedan kakato geri would be much more appropriate.

[Bloke]

Have a look at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY_pJTPB5VI

At about 50 secs Chris Ondunakan scores waza ari with Ushiro Ashi Barai.

[Paedde]

My sensei told me, that you have to do the following technique before the opponent hits the ground, is that in every organisation the rule?

In my dojo I was able to sweep up to brown belts as a 10. Kyu, and nobody ever uses them, so I was just wondering

And Matsui used them a lot in his 100-Man Kumite if I am right?

[Olrac]

When your opponent hits the ground it is not allowed to do a following technique. So you have to strike again quickly.

[Paedde]

Originally Posted by Olrac

When your opponent hits the ground it is not allowed to do a following technique. So you have to strike again quickly.

But in the YT-Movie Bloke-san posted he didn't do that, if I am right?

[seienchin]

I love this technique in sparring, especially in gradings. It is a great way to take an opponent down with almost no effort on your own part, and without actually hurting more than their pride.

I only really started nailing these after I did a year or so of judo training. They had much better methods of drilling the ashi-barai, to help get the judgement exactly right about timing the strike to the weight bearing (actually, about to be weight-bearing) foot.

I can't recall if I used them in tournaments - I don't think so because I just recall that they never seemed to score.

[Paedde]

They don't score in Semi-Contact too?

[seienchin]

I don't recall ever having any luck with them at all, in non-contact, semi or full-contact. Actually, I don't specifically recall using them, but I definitely recall thinking that they didn't score because the refs weren't used to seeing them executed, and just thought my opponent had tripped.

I can remember most of my tournament losses and wins, and it was usually through chudan or jodan -tsuki and jodan mawashi in non-contact, and jodan mawashi in semi-contact. War of attrition in full-contact, but I only did two of these, before my second knee got blown and I retired (prior deal with husband). It's so long ago now , that I just can't actually remember using them, but I have a memory of the frustration of them not being scored...so maybe I did try. AAARGH this post is making me feel old and doddery

[Satori]

The point tournament circuits I've participated in all scored sweeps followed immediately by a punch (as they're falling). Same rules for light contact continuous and semi-contact.

[Paedde]

Originally Posted by seienchin

I don't recall ever having any luck with them at all, in non-contact, semi or full-contact. Actually, I don't specifically recall using them, but I definitely recall thinking that they didn't score because the refs weren't used to seeing them executed, and just thought my opponent had tripped.

I can remember most of my tournament losses and wins, and it was usually through chudan or jodan -tsuki and jodan mawashi in non-contact, and jodan mawashi in semi-contact. War of attrition in full-contact, but I only did two of these, before my second knee got blown and I retired (prior deal with husband). It's so long ago now , that I just can't actually remember using them, but I have a memory of the frustration of them not being scored...so maybe I did try. AAARGH this post is making me feel old and doddery

I want to compete in my first tournament in a year, and because I will lose with just Tsukis and Mawashi/Mae Geris (That's what everyone does and for years longer than me) I want to train some non-"standard" techniques. Because the Ushiro Ashi Barai worked so well I really want to use it more often, and if it just is to counter some high-kicks.

I know, I'm just a 9th kyu yet but I feel that I can do a lot more than just the standard things, and I have enought time to train (And please don't come with : First learn the basics, I will do that too but I know it won't be enought )

[Paedde]

Originally Posted by Satori

The point tournament circuits I've participated in all scored sweeps followed immediately by a punch (as they're falling). Same rules for light contact continuous and semi-contact.

That sounds very hard, especially while doing ushiro...

[Satori]

Some rules won't allow ushiro because it can be quite uncontrolled in the hands of an inexperienced exponent. And as you've said it's just a sweep without any follow up, so what's the point in doing it if you can't get there for a finishing blow? To hurt them by flooring them?

[Paedde]

Originally Posted by Satori

Some rules won't allow ushiro because it can be quite uncontrolled in the hands of an inexperienced exponent. And as you've said it's just a sweep without any follow up, so what's the point in doing it if you can't get there for a finishing blow? To hurt them by flooring them?

To scare them of their own highkicks

I checked it with sensei and he said that it is legal, but told me that it won't score, so I wondered why some fighters use them

[Satori]

Originally Posted by Paedde

To scare them of their own highkicks

Um but didn't you say you want to surprise them? If you try and be clever by scaring them off high kicks then they'll just keep pounding you with gedan mawashi geri turning the fight into a slugfest. Probably not what you want to go for since they'll likely be able to give and take more. It's not easy to surprise someone when you can't lift your leg...

Originally Posted by Paedde

I checked it with sensei and he said that it is legal, but told me that it won't score, so I wondered why some fighters use them

Probably just to mix things up a bit. The more techniques you use the more things your opponent will have to prepare for from a particular body position. This will lower their reaction time and might give you a slight edge.

[Olrac]

Originally Posted by Paedde

To scare them of their own highkicks

I checked it with sensei and he said that it is legal, but told me that it won't score, so I wondered why some fighters use them

You won't receive points but it can be intimidating to your opponent.
Also when your opponent hits the tatami hard, the air will be forced out of the lungs, so it's not a good feeling.
However, If you've done it once or twice, your opponent will be careful and I doubt if it can be done again.
If he steps away quickly and gives you a hiza geri, it will be IPPON.
(And not in your favour)

[Paedde]

Originally Posted by Satori

Um but didn't you say you want to surprise them? If you try and be clever by scaring them off high kicks then they'll just keep pounding you with gedan mawashi geri turning the fight into a slugfest. Probably not what you want to go for since they'll likely be able to give and take more. It's not easy to surprise someone when you can't lift your leg...


Probably just to mix things up a bit. The more techniques you use the more things your opponent will have to prepare for from a particular body position. This will lower their reaction time and might give you a slight edge.

Could you be so kind and give me some advice what I should learn?
My sensei's and senpai's work a lot on gedan mawashis, I think that is a very good idea but I would also like to mix that up because I know I won't win a lowkick-battle against an more experienced fighter.

[Satori]

Originally Posted by Paedde

Could you be so kind and give me some advice what I should learn?

Hehe teach you kumite in one post? You really need to take this matter up with your instructors! They know what you're capable of doing as well as your current strengths and weaknesses. Any advice I give would be what's worked for my body type with my skills and my faults.

Originally Posted by Paedde

My sensei's and senpai's work a lot on gedan mawashis, I think that is a very good idea but I would also like to mix that up because I know I won't win a lowkick-battle against an more experienced fighter.

If you are highly flexible and athletic, try perfecting some spinning kicks. If you are heavy and new to this whole thing, try focusing on putting your hip into every kick. If you lack strength on mawashi geri, try to spend time on mae and yoko geri. Straight line kicks can be very damaging, especially when you learn to put your hip into them.

But seriously, tell your Sensei what problems you feel you have and try to come up with a strategy together.

[seienchin]

Paedde, that's a really personal choice. It really depends on what flows out of you easily and strongly.

As a 9th kyu, you are still literally finding your feet, so even getting the techniques to flow in combinations and not just be singles will be a big victory. If I could suggest one thing to you it would be to work some combinations that are easy, flow well, and that you feel strong doing. Then rehearse them over and over and over with a block or parry at the beginning. (For example, a block against jodan mawashi), and out comes your snappy combination.

It is unlikely (but possible) that you would win by ippon. Most of us aren't that lucky. But combinations score points.

Good luck!

[Paedde]

Thanks for your advice, I talked with my sensei and will talk again, I just want as much inputs as possible that I can choose what fits me best, I learned the Ushiro Ashi Barai in a forum, and it worked for me, that's why I'm asking those questions here

For the hip usage, I'm able to "throw" opponents easily away with a mae geri, I want to work on my hiza geri too for the close-combat.

I'm 1.82m, 65kg (But I will get more easily, never did sports before and ate almost nothing, changed a lot in the last months and I went up from 60).
I should be very flexible soon, I can reach the ground easily with a butterfly-strech and my hips are very flexible, but I have some problems with my legs, but it gets better from training to training

I thought about the spinning kicks, but it's a light-contact tournament and I think I can't just touch the head without maybe knocking out?

Thanks for the time you all spend for me, I learn a lot with every post