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Kyokushin4life General Discussion General Karate Why you can't do a jumping back spinning kick

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Old 11-02-2012, 09:55 PM   #1
shimmeringreflection
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Why you can't do a jumping back spinning kick

Some people just don't get it!

Occasionally, a typically big guy who wants to be the best at everything will see me do a jumping back spinning kick better than he can, and react by either looking annoyed or making a naive comment like "you're lucky to be so flexible".

Some people just never get it. To do a good spinning kick, both luck (I presume he's referring to having the right genetics) and flexibility have little to do with it.

You simply need to practice them often. If you do them only every weeks then your spining kicks will suck, guaranteed!

I believe a jumping back spinning kick is the hardest move there is in karate. I believe they require, in the following order:

1) Coordination (legs, hips, upper body working together throughout the movement)
2) Balance (proper weight distribution, landing properly on the feet)
3) Jumping ability (from muscles that have learnt to execute explosive controlled movements)
4) Flexibilty

Frequent practice will develop all of these.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:36 PM   #2
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I think a video tutorial is in order

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Old 11-02-2012, 11:10 PM   #3
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Well I'm a big guy 120kg, and I taught myself balance and confidence in the pool. Because the Water supports you as you do the technique, you can practice, practice, practice as long as you want.

I tend to teach it in class in stages, keeping it low and getting the turn in segments etc. But we've all got our ways of doing it, OSU
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmeringreflection View Post
I believe a jumping back spinning kick is the hardest move there is in karate.
Seems pretty tame again in front of the infamous 720
Takes about 6 months to even start landing those monsters properly (atleast it took for me and everyone I hae trained with)
Closer home we do have the do-mawashi kaiten keris in our repertoire
But whenever I have attempted such kicks in sparring in front of the kyokushin crowd I have been criticized for using "flashy" and ineffective techniques

Maybe I am generalizing this a bit too much but where I am from this is the major consensus atleast amongst the students
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Last edited by tijarp; 11-03-2012 at 12:30 AM.
Old 11-03-2012, 01:42 PM   #5
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This Taekwondo instructional video on jumping back spinning kicks looks pretty impressive to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVZ1Dc_Yh6Y

What do you think?
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:05 PM   #6
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Not something I ever had the inclination to work on but always liked watching Garry O'neill :-)
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supergroup7 View Post
This Taekwondo instructional video on jumping back spinning kicks looks pretty impressive to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVZ1Dc_Yh6Y

What do you think?
Pretty cool
Taekwondo kick tutorials are the best
Revolution of kicking by Kang Shin Chul would probably rank as the best martial arts tutorial video ever made
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:51 PM   #8
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I wouldnt call what is in the tutirial a back kick though, I assumed (probably wrongly) that a jumping spinning back meant tobi ushiro geri... not tobi ushiro mawashi geri as the vid?
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senshido View Post
a jumping spinning back meant tobi ushiro geri... n
jumping back kick= tobi ushiro keri
jumping back spinning kick= tobi ushiro mawashi keri

English names of kick always confuse me it is always interpreted as different kicks by different people
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Old 11-04-2012, 04:58 AM   #10
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Yeah, I personally think tobi ushiro mawashi geri is about the same difficulty as tobi ushiro geri, but I find the latter hard on my joints. The Japanese is also a bit ambiguous: while tobi ushiro geri usually means you jump up and spin around to do back kick to the front, it can also mean you just look back, jump and kick back. Of course, we usually mean the former :-)

Agreed -- because it's so complex, initially it has to be broken down in stages.

A 720 was never a kyokushin technique, although it may very well be now. Even the kaitengeri never used to exist. In fact, does anybody remember when they first saw it used in tournaments? My guess is the 80s? It's strictly for tournaments, as you fall on your arse after doing it! I always saw it as a rather cheap trick, but it's still within the rules I suppose. I saw Gary O'Neill recently up close in an exhibition match in Wellington New Zealand a couple of months ago, and I was hoping he'd use it -- but he didn't. I heard he's now got bad knees. He can still kick well though.
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Last edited by sandman; 11-04-2012 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
Old 11-04-2012, 07:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmeringreflection View Post
A 720 was never a kyokushin technique, although it may very well be now. Even the kaitengeri never used to exist. In fact, does anybody remember when they first saw it used in tournaments? My guess is the 80s? It's strictly for tournaments, as you fall on your arse after doing it! I always saw it as a rather cheap trick, but it's still within the rules I suppose. I saw Gary O'Neill recently up close in an exhibition match in Wellington New Zealand a couple of months ago, and I was hoping he'd use it -- but he didn't. I heard he's now got bad knees. He can still kick well though.
Well that's what I love about Kyokushin it adapts and evolves. Whatever is effective is kyokushin
As far as I know even gedan mawashi keri weren't intrinsic of kyokushin it was later adopted after bouts with the muay thai guys
Right now the earliest kaiten keris I can think of are the ones dished out by Kancho Kenji Midori in the 5th world cup I am sure there must have been earlier users and instances
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:06 PM   #12
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Just a reminder to our forum members - please try to avoid making consecutive posts. If you have several posts you want to respond to, use the multi quote function. Thanks guys!
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijarp View Post
jumping back kick= tobi ushiro keri
jumping back spinning kick= tobi ushiro mawashi keri

English names of kick always confuse me it is always interpreted as different kicks by different people
agreed it can be confusing, but I would drop the word "back" from the second one, just "Jumping spinning kick"
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senshido View Post
agreed it can be confusing, but I would drop the word "back" from the second one, just "Jumping spinning kick"
Agreed
Makes much more sense that way

But then again I have came across some people who refer to mawashi keri as spin kick
I guess I would stick with the oriental nomenclatures or better yet demonstrate to make people understand what kick I am talking about

BTW one thing about the tobi ushiro mawashi keri is that many people hit with the outer blade of their feet
Is it ideal?
or should it be the heel of the feet?
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:39 PM   #15
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ideally the heel (kakato), but that's more difficult which is why I think most people use sokuto, but it is easier to injure your foot that way there is always a chance you will be hitting with haisoku
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senshido View Post
ideally the heel (kakato), but that's more difficult which is why I think most people use sokuto, but it is easier to injure your foot that way there is always a chance you will be hitting with haisoku
I would think the japanese with their attention to details would have came up with a different name for all the 3 kicks that you mentioned

Or maybe they do specify it
tobi kakato ushiro mawashi keri anyone

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Old 11-05-2012, 04:40 PM   #17
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i know the kick as "jump spin hook kick," a fun way to display skill. My first teacher can do a speed-break board breaking with such a kick. I've never gotten proficient enough to try it during competitive sparring/kumite.
the "jump turn back kick" is far easier to learn and is far more practical for both sport or combat, leaves me less vulnerable, and I have connected with this with satisfying results.
"jump spin cresent" or the "jump spin round" kicks are variation that I've not been intrested in since I'd rather throw a heel kick...if you're goning to spend that much energy and take such risk might as well deal the most painful hit, even if it's blocked or checked.
Anyone can do the "jump spin hook kick," with the right coaching and pesistant effort, but may not be worth the time, if you're preparing for MMA-type sparring on a limited training time.
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Last edited by Havamal; 11-05-2012 at 04:47 PM.
Old 11-10-2012, 04:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havamal View Post
i know the kick as "jump spin hook kick," a fun way to display skill. My first teacher can do a speed-break board breaking with such a kick. I've never gotten proficient enough to try it during competitive sparring/kumite.
the "jump turn back kick" is far easier to learn and is far more practical for both sport or combat, leaves me less vulnerable, and I have connected with this with satisfying results.
"jump spin cresent" or the "jump spin round" kicks are variation that I've not been intrested in since I'd rather throw a heel kick...if you're goning to spend that much energy and take such risk might as well deal the most painful hit, even if it's blocked or checked.
Anyone can do the "jump spin hook kick," with the right coaching and pesistant effort, but may not be worth the time, if you're preparing for MMA-type sparring on a limited training time.
Tobi usiro keri is probably the best countering kick you can come across (just hope that the guy wasn't going for your legs)
Tobi ushiro mawashi keri or even the ushiro mawashi keri I believe always has to be a trap i.e. you can't just throw it without a combination and hope to connect
The only times that I have connected it are after my opponents have missed the gedan mawashi keri or by throwing a chudan mawashi keri which is my way of gaugeing the maai between me and my partner err little hard to explain the entire process in words though
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:04 AM   #19
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I know exactly what you mean. Connecting with a jodan taisoku ushiro mawashi geri is effective as a counter to a mawashi geri. They throw the kick, you see it coming, and counter with yours. I like to think of it as two cogs: their cog turns yours!
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