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[Setsuna162]

Kyokushin Karate is Korean Karate

When I say "Kyokushin Karate is Korean Karate" I mean it in two points. One is that Kyokushin Karate is made by Korean, and the other that Kyokushin Karate has inherently many important features of Korean martial arts like Taekwondo.

Kyokusin Karate was made by Korean

Kyokusin Karate was made by Korean master Oyama Masutatsu, whos true name is Choi, Bae Dal. Many homepages wants to hide, but he was born in Korea, and his parents and his sons and daughters are all Korean. (Why do they want to hide this truth?)

Oyama Masutatsu was born in Gim Je, a small town of Southern Korea in 1923, as a son of a rich farmer. At that time Korea was in under the rule of Japanese imperialism, so he went to Japan to study. According to his friends, he didn't come back to Korea even when Korea was liberated, because he promised with his mother to come back to his native town as a famous good person who succeeded in the world.

Later he made Kyokusin Karate and his Gyms in Japan, and there were many great martial artists in Korea already who made Taekwondo, he got the nationality of Japan for the political benefit. But he wanted to be a Korean, and he didn't think he was a Japanese.

Kyokusin Karate has many important features of Korean martial arts

Master Choi(Oyama) learned trained Karate before his creation of Kyokusin Karate. But it was neither the only martial arts that he learned, nor the first one. Maybe Karate is the most important one that he learned, but according to what we can search, the most important part of his training is his sole training in the mountain. The first martial arts he learned in his youth was Korean martial arts, which is not certain on its identity. (Korean had many martial arts at that time too.) And he learned Karate when he was in Japan, but he also learned Judo. These are all concerned with just historical facts.

If it were true that Kyokusin Karate has many important features of Korean martial arts it concerns directly to the present situation. The actual result of Kyokusin Karate. If you see the competition of Kyokusin Karate, you can see that it is more similar to Taekwondo than to Karate. At first you might think it is more similar to Karate, for it shares the name "karate". But Kyokusin karate kicks much more than just karate, and those kicks are not in original karate at first. Kicks in fighting is, though prevailed and shared in almost every contemporary martial arts, they were originally unique in Korean martial arts only. Particularly Dui chagi(back kick), Hwai Chuk(reverse kick) and Naeryo Chagi(Axe kick) cannot found in another original martial arts except Taekwondo. But they are important part of Kyokusin Karate.

Of course, Kyokusin Karate is Karate, and it is Japanese. I can accept this fact. I just want to tell you the facts on Kyokusin Karate. For almost people, I believe it is not so important whether Kyokusin Karate is Japanese or not. But it must be important for almost everyone to know the truth. Kyokusin Karate was made by Korean master, who although got the nationality of Japan, and this martial arts has Koreanlike features.

I also can accept that Kyokusin Karate grew under the Japanese culture and it includes it. Every term was written and read to Japanese letters and sounds. But everyone should als accept that Kyokusin Karate was made by only one person, and his own martial arts, and he(Oyama) wanted to remain as Korean forever, and the second grand master of Oyama Masutatsu, the present president of Kyokushin Kai is also Korean. For they are facts.

I found this on: http://taekwondobible.com/discussion/

I think what they are trying to say is only an advertisement for Taekwondo. Kyokushin indeed have some similar technique with Taekwondo, but it's not enough to say Kyokushin is Korean Karate. Karate is Karate.
They also said that Midori shihan was a Korean, is it true?

[kakatootoshi]

Dear Setsuna162,
I do not quite agree with using "axe kick" as an evidence to point out the korean root in kyokushin. This kick was not seen in kyokushin before Andy Hug used it (or at least not many people used it). Not only it had not appeared in tournaments before Andy, I think it had not been a part of the kyokushin syllabus.
And I think by "president of kyokushin kai"(not shin kyokushin kai) the writer is referring to Kancho Matsui. I have heard people saying that Oyama Sosai gave his trust to Matsui as they both shared the same korean blood.

OSU!

[greedy]

crapy article... didn't bring up any emotions at all... and I guess it was written by a korean

[Shokei Marcsui]

It seems that Karate has a chinese martial arts influence.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Karate is a mixture of indigenous Okinawan fighting arts and empty-handed Chinese fighting arts, the latter having been brought to Okinawa by political envoys, merchants, and sailors to and from Fujian Province. For the most part there were no particular styles of "te", but rather a network of practitioners with their own individual methods and eclectic traditions. Early styles of karate are often generalized as Shuri-te, Naha-te and Tomari-te, named after the three cities in which they emerged, although these are not concrete distinctions. Each area (and the teachers who lived there) had particular kata, techniques, and principles that distinguished their local version of te from the others.

To this day Karate from some areas still bears a striking resemblance to Fujian martial arts such as Fujian White Crane, Five Ancestors, and Goroquan (Hard Soft Fist, pronounced "Gōjūken" in Japanese). Some karate looks distincly Okinawan.

and what do you know.... So does TKD!

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

As far back as the Silla Dynasty (668 AD - 935 AD), Chinese Chuan Fa (Kwonbeop) techniques were used to train Korean warriors. These techniques evolved to become the empty-hand art of Subak, which was standardized during the Goryeo Dynasty (935 AD - 1392 AD). During the early Joseon Dynasty (1393 - 1910), Subak was divided into Taekyon (a striking art) and Yusul (a grappling art). Through the years, however, Yusul was practiced with decreasing frequency and, eventually, only the Taekyon aspect of Subak remained, facing extinction.

During the Japanese occupation of Korea (1910-1945), many Koreans were exposed to Japanese versions of Chinese martial arts such as Karate. As the Japanese moved deeper into the continent, Karate was adopted and mixed with more traditional Korean martial arts such as Taekyon, as well as traditional Chinese martial arts studied by Koreans in Manchuria and China
Around the liberation of Korea in 1945, five martial arts schools under the style name of Kong Soo Do or Tang Soo Do, called Kwans, were formed by men who were mostly trained in Japanese Karate. The Kwans and their founders were the Chung Do Kwan (LEE, Won Kuk), Jidokwan (CHUN, Sang Sup), Chang Moo Kwan (YOON, Byung In), Moo Duk Kwan (Hwang Ki), and Song Moo Kwan (ROH, Byung Jick).

I would think that it was common knowledge that Sosai Oyama was korean. I didn't know that Kancho Matsui was the same nationality though.

[Setsuna162]

I agree. This was just a Taekwondo Commercial. But i still want to ask, are Shihan Midori or Kancho Matsui Korean? They claim that Shihan Midori is Korean but they refer to Kancho Matsui. Quite confusing, is it true?

[kakatootoshi]

Dear Setsuna162,
Sorry I am afraid I cannot find where they are talking about Shihan Midori being a korean (maybe I have overlooked). Could you please quote it? Thanks!

OSU!

[Setsuna162]

Oh, here is it: http://www.taekwondobible.com/discus...unjangkyu.html

[Shokei Marcsui]

He got the nationality of Japan for the political benefit. But he wanted to be a Korean, and he didn't think he was a Japanese.

Saying that he wanted to be korean is an opinion, where has he actually said that or been recorded saying that?

This is a dead horse and we should stop beating it.

[Shokei Marcsui]

Originally Posted by Setsuna162

I agree. This was just a Taekwondo Commercial. But i still want to ask, are Shihan Midori or Kancho Matsui Korean? They claim that Shihan Midori is Korean but they refer to Kancho Matsui. Quite confusing, is it true?

The International Karate Organization (IKO) splintered into several groups, in part due to conflict over who would succeed Oyama as chief and the future structure and philosophy of the organization. The organizations that resulted from this split are generally recognised as three IKO groups. Shinkyokushinkai, currently led by Kenji Midori, formed the World Karate Organization (often known as IKO2). Some also joined Hanshi Steve Arneil who left the IKO in 1991 to form the International Federation of Karate (IFK). Other groups splintered off even before his death, among these Seido Juku, formed by his student Kaicho Tadashi Nakamura, U.S. Oyama, formed by his student Shigeru Oyama, and Mushin Karate Do formed by his student Ganci. IKO is currently led by Kancho Shokei Matsui. IKO3 is lead by Kancho Matsushima.

Kyokusin Karate was made by only one person, and his own martial arts, and he(Oyama) wanted to remain as Korean forever, and the second grand master of Oyama Masutatsu, the present president of Kyokushin Kai is also Korean. For they are facts.

Last time I checked, Shokei Matsui was the successor that Oyama named to lead the IKO. Maybe the author is referring to Midori as being the President of the IKO2 and he "twisted" the facts to support his arguments.

[kakatootoshi]

Dear Setsuna162,
Oh the guy who wrote the page was sleeping while working (hope it is not you :lol: ). The clip is showing nothing but Matsui Shokei. And "Shokei" is close to the Korean pronunciation of "Jang Kyu".

OSU!

[Setsuna162]

Ha ha! It's not me . I've watched the clip too and i only saw Kancho Matsui in it but there is Korean sound in the background, this guy probably used this sound to twist the story.

[ibuki]

Actually now and then I think that Kyokushin has some similliarities with Taekwondo. And it is as pointed in the issue the kick and their priority in moder day Kyokushin kumite rules. Maybe originally it wasn't so (when the rules were more modern day daido Juku Kudo ones) but now just look how much of the KO's are done by kicks. I think that Oyama did a great art and after that he created a great set of rules which on other hand made great ...let's call it improved full contact +gedan kicks ITF taekwondo fighters. Sue me or not me personally haD been in the ITF and know that it is much lower than Kyokushin but still if one is too much in both of them and forget that Kyokushin is full contact and Taekwondo is semi contact, one can find a similliarity in the importance of kicking techniques and in the vast number....much more than traditional karate styles.
I am a Bulgarian fighter so I don't want to make an advertisient of taekwondo...even on the cobntrary since for six months of training I entered the regional ITF team several years ago without training anything before(well little kickbozing but no much). I am just trying to clarify the points of the Korean author by a neutral way(since I am no Japanese or Korean and I know about their historical issues and nationalism).
And remember Kyokushin is a great basis(korean or not) - just use it well
OSU

[Shokei Marcsui]

Originally Posted by Ibuki

Actually now and then I think that Kyokushin has some similliarities with Taekwondo.

That's because okinawan karate was influenced by the Chinese and then brought over to Korea by the Japanese during their occupation.

[Setsuna162]

Kicks are an importance part of martial art and not only Taekwondo has kicks. Do you know Vovinam? It's one of Vietnamese tradictional martial art and it has alot of kicks too. Vovinam has some very similliar kicks with Taekwondo (axe kick, round kick, butter fly kick) and it even was created before Modern Taekwondo, so i think we can't say that this or that martial art is similliar to Taekwondo because they both have kicks.

[ichigeki31]

well i beleive mas oyama gave him self to japan so kyokushin is japanese it s roots are japanese karate for eg if you look at bruce lee he was chinese with a half german mom but they consider jeet kune do an american martial art so osu!!!!!
and too make it clear i do not agree that kyokushin is korean osu!!!!

[sokaiya]

I say only in the last 20-30 years has TKD evolved into being more than just Korean Karate, if you look at any of the old practicioners they're exactly like Shotokan fighters.

I've read from Sensei Jon Bluming that Oyama was just the figurehead while Kenji Kurosaki was the one who was teaching everyone Kyokushin.

It's propaganda just like North Korea loves to brag about how Rikidozan was a North Korean and the Hero of Japan.

[Decadent~!]

RikiDoZan was the hero of Japan. He was born in North Korea but it seems that he and his family, the Momotas consider themselves Japanese. The joke with ethnicity is that its twofold; you are thought of as such as such by other who look upon you while you may think you are somthing else. As a Chinese person in the US, people look at me always as some FOB Chinese. If I returned to China, I would be considered American.

[powerof0ne]

most of the Kwan of TKD were solely based on shotokan..ITF style TKD and it's offshoots still do the pinan but call them by a korean name. I do know that chido kwan is based more on shito ryu then shotokan.
Now back to the subject at hand, calling Kyokushin a Korean art is hilarious to me. So Tae Kwon Do was heavily influenced by Karate, and now Kyokushin is influenced by Korean arts?
Tae Kwon Do is influenced heavily by karate but most of it is now olympic style..blah. Hapkido was supposodely influenced by Daito Ryu AJ, even though Daito Ryu denies that the founder of hapkido ever trained in Daito Ryu. Gumdo is obviously influenced from Kendo even though some of the Gumdo history tries to say otherwise. Yudo is the Korean "version" of Judo and imo the only good thing that Korea has done by changing around Japanese arts. Yudo is more of a self-defense/spiritual art whereas most Judo dojo are more focused on competition. Oh yeah, and Tang Soo Do is very similar to Tae Kwon Do but even some of the forms in Tang Soo Do still have the Okinawan name, like CHINTO AND BASSAI! I rest my case.

[kyokushin dave]

For me kyokushin is kyokushin, and not korean karate.
I do both taekwondo (i'm a 4 dan in wtf tkd) and kyokushin karate (II kyu), and i'll find many similarities, (but between kyokushin and tkd WTF, non ITF, ok?)...in the way of kicking and shifting, but it's all.
Kyokushin is kyokushin, taekwondo is taekwondo and korean karate (tang soo do and kong soo do) is korean karate.
It's all!
Yes, Sosai was korean (also kancho matsui is korean, like is wife) and so?
Sosai learned, teenager, some taekyon...but is back ground is shotokan, shorin ryu, goju ryu and kenpo (taikiken)...
His karate has no roots in korean martial arts, i think surely...

[jmkdavid]

Post deleted.
Martin H. Moderator here:
No trashing. Especialy not as offtopic posts in a thread about something,else entirely
If you have critizism about someone, do it in a separate thread, and phrase it politely.

We do NOT want this forum to become the political bickering cesspool that the previous major kyokushin forum became before it forced them to close.