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[mepersoner]

This was started in the other thread, and it was suggested that a new one be started, so here it is. This is how it started:

Originally Posted by Havamal

MMA/UFC is a game for cash, a professional sport that entertains its viewers with rules that favor grappling. I'd distinguish fouls that directly injures a players vs. sly tactics that does not directly harm that which shows thinking out of the box while focused on wining the prize. I wounln't commit a foul strike (no, never), but I'd hold on to the ring and take my chances, "using" the rules.

Osu.

Originally Posted by mepersoner

I know this is a change of topic here, but where do you get that the rules favor grappling? Unless you mean less rules will ALWAYS favor grappling. If a fight goes to the ground and one or both of the fighters aren't active enough, they take the fight off the ground and stand them up. That definitely favors stand-up fighters. You'll never see a grappler refusing to engage on the feet in hopes that the referee will stop the fight and put them on the ground, because that's nonsense and would clearly favor the grappler, just like the current rules clearly favor stand-up fighters because they can just abuse the rules by stalling their way back to standing.

Originally Posted by Havamal

re-standing clearly favors the stand-up and also marketing.

having gloves, even 4 oz, favors the grappler. a striker has, usually, only one punch chance to stop a "shoot from" a good grapbler.

That said, the gloves are there to protect the HANDS. They don't make the strikes any less potent.

An early pioneer in MMA, Tank Abbott wore 4 oz. gloves, VOLUNTARILY, in UFC 6. His previous fighting experience was advertised as pitfighting, but in actuality he had done boxing and wrestling. Why would a boxer who thought gloves would take away from his power wear gloves? Obviously to protect his hands. He knocked out his first opponent, and knocked around his second opponent (lost via Lion Kill/Rear Naked Choke) who collapsed after the fight. The owner of the UFC at the time said that it would be the last time someone was allowed to wear gloves in the UFC.

If you think gloves favor grapplers, the grapplers should support them, right? Well, for one, if you do any grappling and have worn the gloves, you'll know that the gloves make it much more difficult to sink some of the chokes. From a UK article:

One area where Gracie feels safety was actually compromised by the desire for approval is in making the fighters wear gloves: “The gloves are there to protect the fighter’s hands not to protect their opponents face,” he explains, “but this is worse for the opponent because now fighter’s can punch as hard as they want without breaking their hands.”
When Gracie fought in the first three UFC events it was bare knuckle and he feels this is a much safer way to fight: “It looks more dangerous but if you punch hard once, you might not punch again.”

If you have seen Royce fight, you know that he absolutely has NO REASON to want strikers to have any advantage.

The fact is those gloves do nothing more than protect the hand, they don't protect anyone getting punched. If you don't believe it, get a partner and try it sometime.

[shidokanatlanta]

mma favors the grappler because it's the only combat sport where you can win without ever having to hit or get hit.

[Godai]

MMA favors grapplers? See Chuck Liddell about that, I think he would see it differently

As MMA progresses we see more and more wins via knockout or standup. Anyone familiar with what goes into fighting this type of fight would know the strategy involved in the three phases/ranges of the fight.

having gloves, even 4 oz, favors the grappler. a striker has, usually, only one punch chance to stop a "shoot from" a good grapbler.

I'm not sure what this statement means. However it implies the poster is a little short on MMA knowledge. The gloves don't favor a grappler. Bare hands would favor a grappler. Grappling and grip become more difficult with a glove as does grabbing bare skin once it is sweaty while wearing a glove. Another sign of "not understanding MMA" is the where you say "only a one punch chance to stop a shoot." Stop a shoot with a punch? A punch isn't how you typically stop a shoot. Good luck with that

MMA doesn't favor grappling or standup. Each fighter has his special skill and may the better man win.

[powerof0ne]

I hate Lidell's style and most of "The Pit" fighters I have trained with do some of the same sloppy stand up but all of them have been class acts as people just bad fundamentals.

Look at Maurice Smith as an example of a striker that went into the UFC and won, he's a pioneer of a good striker to convert to MMA.

The earlier days of MMA favored grappling because there were a lot of people not used to BJJ, Sambo, CACC, Pankration, and other grappling arts. Times have changed and people are catching up. You don't have to be a BJJ black belt to do well in the UFC and similar events but you have to at least know how to react to someone sweeping you from their guard, working a butterfly guard, knowing how to shrimp/bridge/counter a mount, get out of side control and so on or you will be submitted.

Learn enough of the grappling game so you can make a grappler fall into your trap and fight your game...you might even become a grappler along the way
Osu!

[shidokanatlanta]

has lidell ever knocked anyone who was a threat knocking him out (once against overeem?. his record against other good strikers is terrible. he knocked out grapplers. a terrible striker who can grapple will usually beat a good striker who can't grapple. dominate grapplers who learn rudimentary striking do better than great striker's who learn to grapple. give me examples of example of dominate strikers who've come to mma with great success besides mirko crocop. and for everyone you name i'll name 2 to 3 grapplers to your one.

[Godai]

Actually I think Lidell's strength was wrestling...odd that he took to striking. I agree about being sloppy. I loved Chuck but when i first saw him fight I thought he would lose for sure. He is way unorthodox and not to mention wide open all the time. But you can't argue with success I suppose.

Yup, they say that a wrestler with some boxing skills is more dangerous than a boxer with some wrestling skills. (or something like that ).

Before I trained in BJJ I had all the dogma and armchair warrior idea about what I would do against a grappler. Knee him as he shoots, "reverse punch"
Elbows etc. I'm sure you know the stuff. Once I learned a few things about grappling my fighting overall improved by leaps and bounds. My knowledge of grappling/wrestling and ground fighting improved my standup.

[powerof0ne]

As for strikers that have gotten into MMA with success: Maurice Smith, GSP, Anderson Silva, Wanderlei Silva and most of Chute Boxe, Duane Ludwig, Gilbert Yvel, Jose "Pele" Landi-Jons, Igor "Ice Cold" Vovchanchyn and a few others come to mind. Of course GSP and Anderson Silva have also learned BJJ, wrestling, and other stuff along the way but they started out as strikers in one way or another.

I won't argue that there are a lot of grapplers with success in MMA but I think that's starting to change quite a bit with some of the strikers coming in or grapplers becoming formidable strikers.
Osu!

[Godai]

BJ Penn, a known for his superior grappling/BJJ just won utilizing great standup skills.

[KERRIGAN]

Whilst you need both, MMA definitely favours the grappler.

As for GSP, it is funny how despite his striking background, it has been his grappling/wrestling that has been winning him his big fights.

[Pinkladyeater]

I think that guys like GSP have such a good take down shot that it throws off a lot of his opponents. If you’re not sure what your opponents is doing either striking at you or shooting in for a take down it throws off your whole strategy. These days you have to be able to do both and know when to use striking or grappling techniques, and when not.

[olyckan]

Hello. This comes from alot of studies of MMA. Ive basically been a fan of MMA ever since royce gracie won the first UFC. I follow/followed, pride, ufc, affliction, strikeforce, k-1, k-1 max, dream and lots of swedish mma/k-1 events..

My conclusion is that MMA rules doesnt favor grappler or striker with that said there is a huge difference between how MMA matches goes.

Ring - Pride, Dream, Affliction etc - Favours strikers. I striker can cut off his opponent and bomb em down. Also the ring can be used to launch yourself closer to an opponent. Wanderlei Silva talked about the big change between the ring and the octagon after his fight with CHuck liddell. Many times that fight Wand did his old tacs of seeking up the ring/cage to then launch himself at his opponent. While the ring gave him a boost out from the ropes, the cage is dead solid= you cant use it as tool.

Cage- UFC, Strikeforce etc etc. Heavily favours wrestlers/grapplers. A cage can be circled defensively endlessly without ever being in risk of getting cut off and bombed down. Also the cage heavily favours the push up against a wall and hold tactics. theres no ropes to spring out of if you get showed up against the cage bye your opponent.

Their is a big reason why Wand and Mirco havent been as successful in the cage as they where in the ring. They are superstrikers that needs to be able to stalk and cut off their opponents. If you cant cut off your opponent your striking skills are nullified = heavily favours grappling/wrestling.

[Dent]

Osu!

Quite right, Olyckan! The first time I was in a half-cage for training, I thought the cage would be much springier. Not at all. Almost sucked the energy out, both for the guy with his back to the cage, and the attacker too. Changed up the strategy completely.

Osu!

[shidokanatlanta]

wand and mirco are past their prime. mirko only lost once by submission (in a ring). mirco has always been a small heavyweight and has had knee injuries that have affected is deadly left leg. vandy was best at middleweight (he had 22 straight wins as middleweight king in pride). he had neck surgery, so his best weapon, the clinch is affected. the cage favors the grappler, where as in pride (the ring) stomping, soccer kicks and knees to the head of downed opponent favored strikers.