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Old 05-07-2010, 03:38 PM   #1
bobh
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Kyokushin is Point Fighting?

"When most people consider Karate, they think of more modern forms of Karate (like Kyokushin), which is a form of Karate adapted for point fighting as opposed to actual combat."

http://www.headkicklegend.com/2010/5...auricio-shogun
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:59 PM   #2
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From the same article: "Shotokan employed grappling techniques such as throws and submission holds on top of precise and powerful striking."

This article is trying to imply that Shotokan is more "full contact" then Kyokushin and works on throws and submission holds, too.

Not saying there isn't any of that in Shotokan but the reality of it is there isn't much of it! If you want to learn throws and submission holds do judo, not shotokan.

The author of this interview is seriously misinformed.
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:04 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobh View Post
"When most people consider Karate, they think of more modern forms of Karate (like Kyokushin), which is a form of Karate adapted for point fighting as opposed to actual combat."

http://www.headkicklegend.com/2010/5...auricio-shogun
I just wonder if this journalist (that wrote this stupid article) ever got into a kyokushin fight...or if he ever threw a punch in his entire life. It really amazing the amount of bull that some people write about martial arts. Now with the popularization of MMA...people that don't know **** about fighting write all kind of stupid stuf and think they can "fight".
That's really discusting.
Tks for sharing Bobh, it's our job to know what people are saying about karate and try to educate then.

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Old 05-07-2010, 04:06 PM   #4
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Yeah - this guy's a putz...
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:45 PM   #5
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If Kyokushin was point fighting we would need life meters like those arcade games.
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:50 PM   #6
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Osu!

Well, as Devil's advocate, we do do give points. Waza-Ari and Ippon. That a journalist can't draw the parallel between a standing 8 count, TKO and a KO means that we need to do a better job of explaining it to the general public.

This journalist in particular may need a lot of explaining and demonstration...

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Old 05-07-2010, 05:06 PM   #7
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Kyokushin is pointing fighting because many people are training to go for only the last thirty seconds.

Kyokushin is not point fighting because many people are training to go for a knockout if possible.

To me it is another "men vs women", "head-punching-yes vs head-punching-no" "is Kyokushin for everyone" those kinds of questions.

In theory reading this article may be thought povoking and I may be learning something new about Kyokushin.

Or perhaps resisting (or refusing) to read the article is not so much an act of denying the possibility of further improving one's knowledge. My guts tell me not to read this article.
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Last edited by kakatootoshi; 05-07-2010 at 06:25 PM.
Old 05-07-2010, 05:17 PM   #8
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Osu!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakatootoshi View Post
My guts tell me not to read this article.
Even your gut alone is smarter than an uninformed journalist!

Osu!
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Old 05-07-2010, 05:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kakatootoshi View Post
My guts tell me not to read this article.

I read it....my blood pressure is up.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:04 PM   #10
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If a journalist wrote an article in the woods and there was no one around to read it, would a tree fall on him?
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman View Post
If a journalist wrote an article in the woods and there was no one around to read it, would a tree fall on him?
Only if he is a Goober!!
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:12 PM   #12
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Talking

Knockdown is point fighting.

The point of my knee in your ribs.

The point of my elbow on your collar bone.

The finer part of my shin embedded in your thigh.

Sounds like "point" fighting to me.

Disclaimer: MilkManX in no way read that article.

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Old 05-07-2010, 06:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkManX View Post
Knockdown is point fighting.

The point of my knee in your ribs.

The point of my elbow on your collar bone.

The finer part of my shin embedded in your thigh.

Sounds like "point" fighting to me.

Disclaimer: MilkManX in no way read that article.

Was that a haiku?



EDIT:

@jcarmello:

So if Joe Rogan was the journalist, that would be a yes?

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Last edited by sandman; 05-07-2010 at 06:16 PM.
Old 05-07-2010, 06:28 PM   #14
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Apologies -- I usually wouldn't, you know, register at some forum, but whatever.

I missed that in proofing and didn't realize it read weird, in no way did I imply kyokushin was point fighting. Although I will say internet posturing and "teach 'em a lesson" is, well, cute.

I actually, you know, wrote about how Kyokushin was the roots of modern K-1 fighting recently; headkicklegend. com/2010/2/6/1298755/hkl-on-kickboxing-kazuyoshi-ishiis

So you don't need to fear about kyokushin being misrepresented in the wild and crazy world outside of it, aight?
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:46 PM   #15
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Appreciate DWHeadkick to come in here and set the record straight. Will the original article be edited to be read correctly? Kyokushin Karate people are proud folks...
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:47 PM   #16
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I'm more interested in the Shotokan references. Throws,submissions,grappling...actual combat ?

"When most people consider Karate, they think of more modern forms of Karate, which focus on point fighting as opposed to actual combat. Shotokan employed grappling techniques such as throws and submission holds on top of precise and powerful striking."

Potential students reading this would assume that joining a Shotokan school will teach them to become adept at fighting MMA. Machida is a well rounded fighter and his Shotokan influence shines through in his fighting, but it is "his" Shotokan influence and interpretation and application of certain principles. It isn't application of what is taught in a Shotokan dojo. Shotokan focuses not on actual combat. "They" are the poster children for "point" (tag) fighting. A mock death match. You note the "more modern forms of karate" Shotokan actually "is" the more modern form.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothsake View Post
Appreciate DWHeadkick to come in here and set the record straight. Will the original article be edited to be read correctly? Kyokushin Karate people are proud folks...
Yep, it reads proper at this time.

I have great respect for Kyokushin, obviously, as it led to one of my great passions which is kickboxing.

To reply to something earlier, no, never did Kyokushin. Did Kenpo for nearly 10 years before switching to kickboxing, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godai View Post
I'm more interested in the Shotokan references. Throws,submissions,grappling...actual combat ?

"When most people consider Karate, they think of more modern forms of Karate, which focus on point fighting as opposed to actual combat. Shotokan employed grappling techniques such as throws and submission holds on top of precise and powerful striking."

Potential students reading this would assume that joining a Shotokan school will teach them to become adept at fighting MMA. Machida is a well rounded fighter and his Shotokan influence shines through in his fighting, but it is "his" Shotokan influence and interpretation and application of certain principles. It isn't application of what is taught in a Shotokan dojo. Shotokan focuses not on actual combat. "They" are the poster children for "point" (tag) fighting. A mock death match. You note the "more modern forms of karate" Shotokan actually "is" the more modern form.
Well, Judo also teaches striking and newaza/submissions, but in Sport Judo it is mostly grappling/throws and most groundwork is stood up immediately.

I think the focus of the "Machida" Shotokan is on the practice Kumite as opposed to "sport" Kumite, which is without a doubt point based.
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Last edited by Dent; 05-07-2010 at 07:18 PM. Reason: Consecutive posts
Old 05-07-2010, 07:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWHeadkick View Post
Well, Judo also teaches striking and newaza/submissions, but in Sport Judo it is mostly grappling/throws and most groundwork is stood up immediately.

I think the focus of the "Machida" Shotokan is on the practice Kumite as opposed to "sport" Kumite, which is without a doubt point based.
Ahhh....the Machida Shotokan So it isn't "really" Shotokan then. It's his version. Shotokan wasn't complete so he "tweaked" it. For him it's ok....if I do it the powers that be say "hey...that not Shotokan!" "You must follow correct form."

At what point do we change the name of a style after adding or subtracting techniques or making changes?
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Ahhh....the Machida Shotokan So it isn't "really" Shotokan then. It's his version. Shotokan wasn't complete so he "tweaked" it. For him it's ok....if I do it the powers that be say "hey...that not Shotokan!" "You must follow correct form."

At what point do we change the name of a style after adding or subtracting techniques or making changes?
Well, that is the thing. When does straying but still following the loose restrictions of a discipline become its own? I got bored with Kenpo restrictions and moved on to do stuff that gave me more room to do what I want, but I know a lot of people who saw that as disgraceful.
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:20 PM   #20
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Osu!

Welcome to the Forum, DWHeadkick!

Congratulations on taking this approach to our criticism! I'm impressed by your attitude on this, and invite you to introduce yourself in our Introductions section. I think you could add another perspective to our many debates.

Osu!
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