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Old 11-14-2011, 05:14 PM   #1
FredInChina
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List of all kyokushin kata from yesteryear and today.

Osu,


I am hard put to find a definite list of kyokushin katas; some orgs practice some that others don't, etc...

Taikyoku sono 1, 2, 3, + the 3 ura forms.
Sokugi Taikyoku sono 1, 2, 3, + the 3 ura forms.
Pinan sono 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 + 2 ura forms, or are there 5 ura forms?Yantsu
Tsuki No
Gekkisai Dai
Gekkisai Sho
Saiha
Sanchin
Tensho
Seienchin
Seipai
kanku dai
sushiho
Garyu
Tekki 1 & 2

What about Juji & Jyu No Kata?
Are there other katas?
Kihon katas (IFK has two)
Kobudo katas?


Let's see if we can agree on a full & complete list.
Then, I'll build a two entries matrix ticking which org practices which.


Osu!
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:18 PM   #2
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I recall seeing Bassai Dai being performed recently... I could be wrong.

I also am unsure as to the practitioner's organization. It may just be spill over from earlier training.
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:41 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shokei Marcsui View Post
I recall seeing Bassai Dai being performed recently... I could be wrong.
Are you thinking of this?

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Old 11-14-2011, 08:56 PM   #4
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Osu,

I think Kyokushin Kan is bringing back some of the shotokan kata like Bassai Dai, etc. which may have been practised in the early days of Kyokushin. In some of the old mags, they also mentione Hangetsu.

The Juji kata is from Kyokushin Kan and they also do a lot of Kobudo kata now.

I assume you are referring specifically to Kyokushin groups under the Kyokushin banner and not its offshoots that have their own kata?

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Old 11-15-2011, 12:58 AM   #5
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Yes Ashiharakaicho, I am referring to kyokushin only here.
Why not start a similar thread for Ashihara karate?


Osu!
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredInChina View Post
Yes Ashiharakaicho, I am referring to kyokushin only here. Why not start a similar thread for Ashihara karate? Osu!
OK, we actually only have a handful of kata - the AKI has 15 and I believe the NIKO has a few more. Offshoots such as Enshin has their own - 5 or 6 I think.

But yes, it would be good to write about it. Will do so soon.

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Old 11-15-2011, 10:14 AM   #7
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yantsu (yansu) is another

I use bassai dai (as mentioned above)

I have also incorporated sanseru (from goju ryu), but that doesnt make it a kyokushin kata.
Incidentally, I dont use the Tekki's and never seen them performed by any of the kyokushin orgs in the UK
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senshido View Post
Incidentally, I dont use the Tekki's and never seen them performed by any of the kyokushin orgs in the UK
As mentioned, the only group that I am aware that is doing that is the Kyokushin Kan group. They might also refer to it as Naihanchi ...

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Old 11-15-2011, 04:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbel View Post
I recall someone else practicing it at what appeared to be a summer camp. But that person is definitely recognizable so I suppose Bassai Dai is now in the IKO1 syllabus.

Thank you for the video link.

I would love to see an interpretation of Tetsuhiko Asai kata.

I like the emphasis on power and large motions in Kyokushin kata interpretations.
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Last edited by Shokei Marcsui; 11-15-2011 at 04:03 PM.
Old 11-15-2011, 04:38 PM   #10
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Osu!

One of our own K4L members had to do Tekki 1, 2 and 3 as part of a test recently. First I've heard of them being required, but there you go!

Oh, and all Pinan Kata have Ura versions..........

Osu!
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:25 PM   #11
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Here are the additions to the original list on this thread that I have from IKO1 Eastern Canada:

Taikeyoku 3, 4
Taikeyoku 3, 4 Ura
Soburi Kata
Hiji Kata
Ichigai Kata
Tekki 3
Bo Kata 1,2,3
Tonfa Kata 1
All Pinan 3, 4, 5 in Ura
Bassai Dai
Happono No Kazushi (32 movements)

OSU.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaken View Post
Here are the additions to the original list on this thread that I have from IKO1 Eastern Canada:
Taikeyoku 3, 4
Taikeyoku 3, 4 Ura
Soburi Kata
Hiji Kata
Ichigai Kata
Tekki 3
Bo Kata 1,2,3
Tonfa Kata 1
All Pinan 3, 4, 5 in Ura
Bassai Dai
Happono No Kazushi (32 movements)
OSU.
Wow, becoming like Shito Ryu with their many kata - wouldn't you think that like with Goju Ryu having a smaller amount of kata - the performance can be better?

What are the Soburi, Hiji and Ichigai kata like? Are the Bo Kata 1,2,3 any similar to the Chion kata as practised in Kyokushin/Seido?

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Old 11-15-2011, 08:35 PM   #13
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Osu!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashiharakaicho View Post
Wow, becoming like Shito Ryu with their many kata
Shhh......... You'll wake the sleeping giant that is Bobh!

Semi-seriously though, when is it enough? How many Kata can we really study to the point where we can benefit from any knowledge they may actually house?

Sometimes less is more, and more is just a waste.

Osu!
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent View Post
Osu! Shhh......... You'll wake the sleeping giant that is Bobh!
Hey, maybe you the catalyst in getting some greater interaction on the forum. We missed you ...

Quote:
Semi-seriously though, when is it enough? How many Kata can we really study to the point where we can benefit from any knowledge they may actually house? Sometimes less is more, and more is just a waste.
How pleased I am that we have limited kata - 15 in total but some of them are similar with some extra additions so we could have about 12 and they are easy learning if one is in the system.

Because of that, it is easier for our students to learn some extra kata. Last month was the last tournament so for this past month we have been working even more on our kata and its application.

When one looks at some of the kyokushin dojo here, many of them don't place much emphasis on kata so having more is definitely not a plus to the students. Some of them are now competing in kata competition, but a mere handful.

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Old 11-15-2011, 08:46 PM   #15
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Osu!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashiharakaicho View Post
Hey, maybe you the catalyst in getting some greater interaction on the forum. We missed you ...



How pleased I am that we have limited kata - 15 in total but some of them are similar with some extra additions so we could have about 12 and they are easy learning if one is in the system.

Because of that, it is easier for our students to learn some extra kata. Last month was the last tournament so for this past month we have been working even more on our kata and its application.

When one looks at some of the kyokushin dojo here, many of them don't place much emphasis on kata so having more is definitely not a plus to the students. Some of them are now competing in kata competition, but a mere handful.
Many thanks! Not having the net is one thing, not having K4L is altogether another!

The Kata question has hung heavily over me of late. Dedicated practice to three of them has given me much to practice, but at the same time reason to question both the validity and purpose of teaching multiple Kata to students with limited time and ability to train on their own.

When the time comes, I will go in a very different route with Kata.

Osu!
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent View Post
Osu! Many thanks! Not having the net is one thing, not having K4L is altogether another!
Oh boy - this Net thingie has certainly changed one's life and even K4L- first thing when I switch on the PC is to open the K4L home page ...

The Kata question has hung heavily over me of late. Dedicated practice to three of them has given me much to practice, but at the same time reason to question both the validity and purpose of teaching multiple Kata to students with limited time and ability to train on their own. When the time comes, I will go in a very different route with Kata. [/quote]

It will be interesting to read your comments and thinking regarding your 'experimentation."

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Old 11-15-2011, 08:54 PM   #17
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Osu!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashiharakaicho View Post
It will be interesting to read your comments and thinking regarding your 'experimentation."
We'll see. May bore everyone else to tears, but I think I'll thread it once I get caught up with the tons of work outstanding.

Osu!
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent View Post
Osu! We'll see. May bore everyone else to tears, but I think I'll thread it once I get caught up with the tons of work outstanding. Osu!
Well, I will be looking out for it ...

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Old 11-15-2011, 09:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent View Post
Osu!



Shhh......... You'll wake the sleeping giant that is Bobh!

Semi-seriously though, when is it enough? How many Kata can we really study to the point where we can benefit from any knowledge they may actually house?

Sometimes less is more, and more is just a waste.

Osu!
I like traditions and I am not negative to kata (although kata +realistic bunkai would be better) but I must say that I dont like the trend of adding kata.

I would say that the goal should be to reduce the number of kata (taikyoku 2-3 could be dropped tomorrow. Same thing with all Ura, Sokugi and Tate versions of the taikyoku and pinan series), not increase it.
Maybe keep the excess kata´s as a sort of elective specialty at high level, but not as part of formal system.

And here are a few kyokushin kata not yet mentioned
TAIZAN -New kata for IKO1, 1 dan. created by Matsui.
SOKI - New kata for IKO1, required for 2 dan
Gankaku - Trad kata from Shotokan. Required in kyokushins childhood, long since removed.
HANGETSU -Trad kata from Shotokan. Required in kyokushins childhood, long since removed.
CHUN NO KON -Bo kata (Kon=okinawan dialect for Bo staff)- Required in kyokushins childhood, long since removed.

Some Kata (originating from shotokan) I have seen referred to as old kyokushin (or possibly even pre-kyokushin, back in the "oyama karate jutsu" days) katas now removed, but have failed to get confirmation on:
Jion
Jitte
Empi.
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Last edited by Martin H; 11-15-2011 at 09:39 PM.
Old 11-15-2011, 09:42 PM   #20
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I like traditions and I am not negative to kata (although kata +realistic bunkai would be better) but I must say that I dont like the trend of adding kata.
I am totally in support of this ideology. Learn to understand what there is and work on improving that.

Quote:
And here are a few kyokushin kata not yet mentioned
TAIZAN -New kata for IKO1, 1 dan. created by Matsui.
SOKI - New kata for IKO1, required for 2 dan
Thanks - this is new to me - any explanation on the embusen or the thoughts behind these kata?

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