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[seattle]

Originally Posted by FredInChina

Hummmm... any chance you could verify this information, just in case someone made a mistake?


Osu!

No mistake. It is direct from our branch chief's directives. I got email from tournament organizer. You could always follow up with him if you wish. (EastsideKyokushin)

[powerof0ne]

Originally Posted by seattle

Any place else, no I have not seen or heard of it. However the Shihan here is an advocate of groin kicks and the ring style division is his.

I was about to say that..from my limited exposure to Shihan Adams, he's all for groin kicks In gradings, tournaments, etc.
Osu!

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by seattle

No mistake. It is direct from our branch chief's directives. (...)

Yes, it is well known that those guys NEVER make mistakes...

Originally Posted by powerof0ne

I was about to say that..from my limited exposure to Shihan Adams, he's all for groin kicks - In gradings, tournaments, etc.
Osu!

Well, in that case, happy whacking to the WestCoasters...
Please make sure you post videos with a good soundtrack
(and read the small print of the disclaimer with care before you sign it!)


Osu!

[powerof0ne]

I have one fighter I just confirmed that is going to do it..as of 3 minutes ago. I will see if I can get a second fighter for ring style but that will be the best I can come up with. I will also be purchasing them Muay Thai style steel cups for this, for having the balls (pun intended) to step up to the competition!
Osu!

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by powerof0ne

(..) I will also be purchasing them Muay Thai style steel cups for this, for having the balls (pun intended) to step up to the competition!
Osu!

An account at the local sperm bank would be nice too...


osu!

[powerof0ne]

Originally Posted by FredInChina

An account at the local sperm bank would be nice too...


osu!

Thankfully, he already has a couple of kids .
Osu!

[gotapex]

Originally Posted by seattle

Rules given to me for Ring Style


Groin kicks legal

I wonder if these folks will show up...

You Tube

[desibeli]

Very surprising. I wonder if there is any data/experience on the increased risk of damage to the testes to help fighters make the decision to enter or not.

Also I wonder what the purpose of allowing it is, given that it is a foul in nearly any other competition. It seems that nearly everybody would have to change their fighting style for this one bout?

[powerof0ne]

Originally Posted by desibeli

Very surprising. I wonder if there is any data/experience on the increased risk of damage to the testes to help fighters make the decision to enter or not.

Also I wonder what the purpose of allowing it is, given that it is a foul in nearly any other competition. It seems that nearly everybody would have to change their fighting style for this one bout?

Honestly, I just think it means go for any gedan mawashi, even if you're not sure you have it, go for it. It just releases trying to be careful of not kicking to the groin. I suppose some may train kinteki geri for this, but I seriously doubt I'll be focusing much on that. I wouldn't feel too proud if I won by kicking someone in the groin, and I'm fairly certain who I'm getting to enter would, neither.

I'm fairly certain most fighters wouldn't purposely try to win via kinteki geri but there are always the few odd ducks.
Osu!

[seienchin]

Originally Posted by powerof0ne

I'm fairly certain most fighters wouldn't purposely try to win via kinteki geri but there are always the few odd ducks.
Osu!

It only takes one odd duck, and they are definitely out there. Friend of mine was impotent for 12 months after injuries sustained during a NORMAL rules tournament, by someone who just kept attacking the groin. No joy to winning through a disqualification, only to be left like he was.


I'd say it's time for the groin guard with the venom-tipped spikes on the outside!

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by seienchin

(...) I'd say it's time for the groin guard with the venom-tipped spikes on the outside!

We have a new model based on the chastity belts used in the 13th century across Arabia!

More seriously though, I'd like to understand the rationale behind allowing groin hits in a KD tourney.
- The target is protected. (or so I hope it is!)
- Yet, there is an important risk of serious injury, with long term consequences.
- Most participants would not deliberately target the groin, for romantic reasons (see above).
- But some will and will derive an advantage from it... because they are dicks (see above), but if they do, everyone must do (see the bank meltdown of 2008).
- Already tourneys have difficulties recruiting participants... IMHO groin kicks are not going to make the waiting line longer.
- Already in some states, KD is banned or under pressure (I remember PO1 or Seattle posting proposed legislation in Washington state, and some other in Illinois...)... Are groin kicks going to be be popular with your everyday representative?
- What about insurance issues in the US?
- Liability insurance and lawsuits?

I was first very surprised & asked for verification... I do not think this info was verified directly at the source; there were comments saying that circumstantial evidence made us think that it was not a mistake, because yadda yadda yaddada.

EastsideKyokushin, apparently you are the organizer:
- are groin hits really allowed in your tourney, or was it a typo in your leaflet? (I still believe it was a typo, it is not all that hard to type "allowed" instead of "not allowed"...)
- If they are allowed, what is the rationale? make it more "street like"?
- Will biting and eye gouging be allowed next year too? Small joints manipulation? fish hooking?


Osu!

[EastsideKyokushin]

Originally Posted by FredInChina

More seriously though, I'd like to understand the rationale behind allowing groin hits in a KD tourney.
- The target is protected. (or so I hope it is!)
- Yet, there is an important risk of serious injury, with long term consequences.
- Most participants would not deliberately target the groin, for romantic reasons (see above).
- But some will and will derive an advantage from it... because they are dicks (see above), but if they do, everyone must do (see the bank meltdown of 2008).
- Already tourneys have difficulties recruiting participants... IMHO groin kicks are not going to make the waiting line longer.
- Already in some states, KD is banned or under pressure (I remember PO1 or Seattle posting proposed legislation in Washington state, and some other in Illinois...)... Are groin kicks going to be be popular with your everyday representative?
- What about insurance issues in the US?
- Liability insurance and lawsuits?

I was first very surprised & asked for verification... I do not think this info was verified directly at the source; there were comments saying that circumstantial evidence made us think that it was not a mistake, because yadda yadda yaddada.

EastsideKyokushin, apparently you are the organizer:
- are groin hits really allowed in your tourney, or was it a typo in your leaflet? (I still believe it was a typo, it is not all that hard to type "allowed" instead of "not allowed"...)
- If they are allowed, what is the rationale? make it more "street like"?
- Will biting and eye gouging be allowed next year too? Small joints manipulation? fish hooking?


Osu!

Osu!

I am the organizer of the tournament this year, but ultimately it is our branch's tournament and therefore fully under the control of our Shihan. The organization/hosting rotates among the dojos in our branch.

With regard to groin kicks:
Per our Shihan, they are allowed in ring style only.
The intent with "ring style" is to bridge the gap between kyokushin rules, boxing rules, and the street.

As for the other stuff you mention - no.

[FredInChina]

Osu,


Thank you for the clarification that "the intent with "ring style" is to bridge the gap between kyokushin rules, boxing rules, and the street."

I think we could have a thread, just for that!


Osu!

[desibeli]

Originally Posted by powerof0ne

Honestly, I just think it means go for any gedan mawashi, even if you're not sure you have it, go for it. It just releases trying to be careful of not kicking to the groin. I suppose some may train kinteki geri for this, but I seriously doubt I'll be focusing much on that.

That makes sense.

I was thinking more along the lines that the punches to the head would lead to a more "flat front" boxing type of stance. However to protect against knees to the groin a more sideways and distanced stance like in taekwondo would be useful. I couldn't figure out how I would address the situation. I'm not entering the ring, but I do plan to check it out from the sideline.

[49ers1970]

Osu! Power of One!

If you had your fighters practice Sanchin Kata while using a Shinai

without a groin protector, then they would not need one during the

Knockdown competition???!!!! LOL!

Just kidding.

Best of luck to your fighters in the Northwest Open.

Osu!

[seattle]

Knockdown, groin kicks are not allowed!

Ring style, yes.

[powerof0ne]

Originally Posted by 49ers1970

Osu! Power of One!

If you had your fighters practice Sanchin Kata while using a Shinai

without a groin protector, then they would not need one during the

Knockdown competition???!!!! LOL!

Just kidding.

Best of luck to your fighters in the Northwest Open.

Osu!

I literally started laughing out loud before I got to your "LOL" with the mental image of me whacking them with a shinai LOL!

I'm having a kickboxer I've known and trained with for quite a while enter the ring style rules. He's fought amateur kickboxing for many years and will be retiring in the next year or two so I'm trying to get him a few more opportunities to fight before he does. Him and I both have the connections to get him a pro fight or two but with his work schedule and family commitments it's not really feasible. Just thought I'd say that so nobody gets the wrong idea he's a beginner student of mine.
Osu!

[desibeli]

How does it work with weight classes, are there any or is it best attempt to match?

[EastsideKyokushin]

Originally Posted by desibeli

How does it work with weight classes, are there any or is it best attempt to match?

Weight classes for men are

<160
160-180
180-220
220+

Naturally, we reserve the right to adjust the weight classes if needed, but we rarely have to for the mens division. If anything, we have added something like Men's Flyweight (ie: less than 145 pounds or so) when we have had a whole bunch of people that were in that range.

For ring style we will have to see how many participants there are.

With regard to groin kicks, per Shihan Adams:
The intent for allowing groin kicks is not to encourage groin kicks, but rather to remove them from being illegal. In doing so you end up encouraging more kicks to the inner thigh for example. It also eliminates the issues regarding people faking being kicked in the groin because there is no incentive to fake anymore. In the time that we have run this tournament, we have not seen any significant groin shots that caused injury.

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by EastsideKyokushin

(...) In the time that we have run this tournament, we have not seen any significant groin shots that caused injury.

In that case then.......


Osu!