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[slaine]

I would impress upon each student that he or she should understand that Kata is primarily a form of exercise using various Karate techniques .

In its basic form a definition of Kata would bethat it ''consists of a predetermined series of techniques performed in a set sequence ''. Kata will enable the student to practice the basic fundamental aspects of Karate , this practice can be with fellow members of a dojo or on his or her own . Its practice obviously involves many techniques and methods of movement and the constant diligent performance of Kata will eventually give the student a good all round means of exercise and muscle development .

If you examine closely the various techniques practiced in Kata you will discover an adaptability of those techniques into which a system of self defence develops . In addition you may also develop and adapt certain techniques and apply them to a fighting situation .

But I would stress that is a by product of Kata and as mentioned above Kata is a means of both practicing and remembering techniques and in addition a means of developing a disciplined mind and body and not as some times remarked '' a method of fighting many opponents '' .

In order to advance in both the learning and basic understanding of a Kata the student will have to take a number of progressive steps and will have to possess a general understanding of the basic exercises involved in each Kata .

This is Hanshi Arneils take on Kata and it's good enough for me .

[Okamido]

Originally Posted by FredInChina

.....

The simplest lunge punch in zenkutsu dachi, in the simplest kata (Taikyoku sono ichi) can be a nasty throw if your front leg reaches behind your opponent and the punch is a body push/throw of the opponent backwards over that leg...

Try it - with prudence - it works very well and is not a nice controlled easy to break fall... it twists the spine and not only hurts you, but puts you in a very, very vulnerable position.

So much for useless telegraphed lunge punches, eh?


Osu!

With the deepest respect....... I just do not get it!

You Tube

Osu!

[Okamido]

You Tube

I do 'get this' though.......

I am not advocating or advertising the 'Senshido' system though specifically, although it is very much in line with what I teach for self-defence as Kakuto karate - Combat Empty Hand.

There are no new, revolutionary techniques in the martial arts. There are however techniques and drills ( kata's ), that have no place in combat-sports training for the mat/ring/cage, as you would be developing muscle memory-reflex for techniques that would be against the rules of a game.

Now the concept of drills ( kata's ) for real self-defence - I totally understand.

Consider this.....If you had someone come to you, and state that there was absolutely no other option. They had to fight, and had to go for the optimal method of winning. You had just 5 minutes to show them something....

Would it be punch-kata? Or would it be something more like Kakuto Karate / Senshido...

Osu!

[Okamido]

So....

Why not make Kata drills the equivilent of Katana - deadly sword, where as kumite is practise with the shinai - bamboo sword.

Drills utilising open palm - fingers to the eyes, extendeds finger to the throat, headbutts, bites, ear grabs, hair grabs, neck twists, stomp kicks to the limbs ( knees, ankles ... )...

That would add such weight to the time practising such things ( solo drills ), and may give someone the knowledge, reflex under duress, that could save their life.

Thoughts to consider maybe?

Osu!

[meguro]

I would draw a distinction between drills and kata. Kata will never prepare you for sp as the technique are never fully formed, just hinted at. Take juji uke, which appears in many kata. It was mentioned in a recent IKO1 Kyokushin video, now removed from these boards for potential copyright infringement. The presenter, Matsui Kancho, suggests whipping out the juji uke to block a front kick. I think it's a little more complicated than that.

Here's one approach to what we know as the juji uke. Wait for it. It starts around 5:00.

You Tube

[Dent]

Osu!

Okamido, the one is the Kata, the other is application. Apples and oranges.

Meguro, are you attending the Susquehanna University event? Pekiti Tirsia on the menu, and Wes is great about drawing parallels and showing the hows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pekiti-Tirsia_Kali

Osu!

[jcarmello]

Osu!

Some interesting items presented in this thread. Here is a small take I have on training "Karate" and what I have as an arsenal for the street. When I am in the dojo, I am training "dojo karate" what I have for the street is something that life experience has taught me, and the fundamental "one, two punch" I learned as a kid as well as many of the lessons I learned in Kempo when I was younger.

I had a bunch of other items to share but I went A.D.D. and am going to bed!!

OSU!!

[FredInChina]

LOL... night night JCarmelo

Originally Posted by Okamido

With the deepest respect....... I just do not get it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an8TIQ8dwZ4

Osu!

Argh... it is going to be a tough one to communicate here Okamido; you did not get what I said, and I can't see the videos you put up!
I bookmarked the thread to view your vids when I am not on the left side of TGFW


OSu!

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by jcarmello

the fundamental "one, two punch" I learned as a kid OSU!!

In Glasgow they call it a 1 - 3, I saw Billy Connolly explaining how a Glasgow hardman was telling him if he wanted to be tough he had to learnto throw the 1- 3 and when Billy asked him what happened to 2 he told him Oh you cop that

[Okamido]

Meguro - thanks for the video clip.

Dent, Fred-in-China, and other K4L members. Hopefully my angle on spending time developing muscle memory-reflexes for possible self-defence situations was better explained from the shredder clip.

Drills - kata, is not a bad thing in my eyes - if it has clear practicalities.

Osu!

[meguro]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!
Meguro, are you attending the Susquehanna University event? Pekiti Tirsia on the menu, and Wes is great about drawing parallels and showing the hows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pekiti-Tirsia_Kali

Osu!

Osu! Nah, not this time, Dent. Currently exploring PTK.

I thought I'd add this video to counterbalance the PTK knife tapping drill (juji uke?).

You Tube

On the one hand, I do crave more content, more technique. If we consider the reality of violence, however, so long as we focus on unarmed fighting, what we do may be no more than rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Maybe the only functionality of karate/kata training for sp is self improvement, in the sense of reducing a vague sense of vulnerability.

Osu! De nada, Okamido.

[Dent]

Osu!

Meguro, that video is a fine example of why I believe we should be weapons savvy. And carry.

Maybe it's cultural, but I grew up seeing the effects of what we call the Panga (Similar to your Machete.)



Assegai



and Knopkerrie (Old and new. Althouth I'd say the modified modern version is much better, I couldn't find a photo of it.)



as well as any number of smaller bladed weapons. (You'll love this. We used to live in the Valley of a Thousand Hills, and two guys come in one with a knife handle sticking out of the top of his head, wih the rest of it inside the skull. Can we get them to the hospital? Ok, we're making a plan, and ask guy without the knife if he's a friend or a relative? Nope. That's his knife, and he wants it back! )

I don't want to encourage voyeurism with regard to violence, but any Karateka not aware of what blades can do should spend thirty minutes looking at video and photos of the blade in use, and it's results.

Osu!

[jcarmello]

OSU!!

All of this brings out a very important factor in S.P. that i tend to share with everyone in my family.........."MOVE!!!" "DON'T STOP!!" If you feel the slightest hair or unsure feeling move!!

Which brings to the forefront of........"How do you train dynamic striking in a retreating manor?"

[meguro]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!

Meguro, that video is a fine example of why I believe we should be weapons savvy. And carry.

Osu! Dent, it's interesting that you say that. I have to agree. I've been thinking about it for a while, especially vis-a-vis body conditioning, nukite, etc. Pure functionality demands that we dump the empty hands and grab a pointy stick, which inevitably leads to a blade, and hey you know what they say about bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Originally Posted by jcarmello

Which brings to the forefront of........"How do you train dynamic striking in a retreating manor?"

With a gun and some cover.

[slaine]

I to thought the initial part of of the last video was quite good as I feel most knife/blade defence videos and instructors out there at the moment are bulls**t . In most instances the first you'll know a guy has a knife is when its pressed in your ribs or up to your throat , this face off blade showing knife fight crap doesn't really happen in my experience , my good friends 15 year old son lost his life in fraction of a second after having a screwdriver slammed into his temple up to the handle for refusing to give a local scumbag a cigarette , poor kid never stood a chance , these kinds of attacks are becoming more and more common in my neck of the woods .

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by Dent

(...) I don't want to encourage voyeurism with regard to violence, but any Karateka not aware of what blades can do should spend thirty minutes looking at video and photos of the blade in use, and it's results.

Osu,


MAybe we should have a thread in Ocha No Ma for that?
I think it is important, but as you say, no need to encourage voyeurism and attract all sort of weirdos to K4L.

I'll leave it for the mods to decide.


Osu!

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by jcarmello

Which brings to the forefront of........"How do you train dynamic striking in a retreating manor?"

Practice. Get on the pads. Get on the mat. Get someone to wear the armor and attack with intent.

Get very, very uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by meguro

Osu! Dent, it's interesting that you say that. I have to agree. I've been thinking about it for a while, especially vis-a-vis body conditioning, nukite, etc. Pure functionality demands that we dump the empty hands and grab a pointy stick, which inevitably leads to a blade, and hey you know what they say about bringing a knife to a gunfight.

While I'd agree with the rest, I think the majority of the time, a blade is easier to carry. Particularly with regard to the law. (And there's the advantage of non-registration (In most places. I bought a beauty in Singapore, but had to submit a form with all sorts of details.), and the relative low cost. Simple and cheap. Mass production can be your friend.

And as for close range.

http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapo...-valid-Part-1/

http://www.policeone.com/news_internal.asp?view=113907

Of course, none of this is going to help if we're switched off. And it happens to everyone. Sometimes by choice. If we don't switch off for a while, we're going to be cabbages.

Originally Posted by slaine

I to thought the initial part of of the last video was quite good as I feel most knife/blade defence videos and instructors out there at the moment are bulls**t . In most instances the first you'll know a guy has a knife is when its pressed in your ribs or up to your throat , this face off blade showing knife fight crap doesn't really happen in my experience , my good friends 15 year old son lost his life in fraction of a second after having a screwdriver slammed into his temple up to the handle for refusing to give a local scumbag a cigarette , poor kid never stood a chance , these kinds of attacks are becoming more and more common in my neck of the woods

I hate to hear it, Slaine, but I absolutely believe it. There usually isn't even time to realize that he has a blade.

Originally Posted by FredInChina

MAybe we should have a thread in Ocha No Ma for that?
I think it is important, but as you say, no need to encourage voyeurism and attract all sort of weirdos to K4L.

I'll leave it for the mods to decide.

Suggestion noted, FredInChina.

Osu!

[meguro]

Originally Posted by slaine

, this face off blade showing knife fight crap doesn't really happen in my experience , my good friends 15 year old son lost his life in fraction of a second after having a screwdriver slammed into his temple up to the handle for refusing to give a local scumbag a cigarette , poor kid never stood a chance , these kinds of attacks are becoming more and more common in my neck of the woods.

I am sorry to hear about your friend's son. Tragedy.

Face-offs are the type of thing one can avoid. The ambush works all the time since you are caught unaware and with limited choices. Doesn't matter if you are a black belt or a platoon of marines.

Originally Posted by Dent

While I'd agree with the rest, I think the majority of the time, a blade is easier to carry. Particularly with regard to the law. (And there's the advantage of non-registration (In most places. I bought a beauty in Singapore, but had to submit a form with all sorts of details.), and the relative low cost. Simple and cheap. Mass production can be your friend.

And as for close range.

http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapo...-valid-Part-1/

http://www.policeone.com/news_internal.asp?view=113907

Of course, none of this is going to help if we're switched off. And it happens to everyone. Sometimes by choice. If we don't switch off for a while, we're going to be cabbages.

Osu! The gun suggestion was a little in jest. Carrying a knife can offer a sense of security. I know. I have a drawer full them. As a defensive tool, I wonder how quickly a knife (or a gun) can be deployed given the nature of surprise and the distances involved. As a stealthy offensive tool, knives are unparalleled.

[FredInChina]

Originally Posted by slaine

(...) 15 year old son lost his life in fraction of a second after having a screwdriver slammed into his temple up to the handle for refusing to give a local scumbag a cigarette (...)

Wow! this is indeed a tragedy!
How do you prepare for that?
I don't know!


Osu!

[meguro]

It seems like I've got juji uke on my mind. Here's another application. It happens at the 1:30 mark.

You Tube