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Old 10-22-2006, 09:00 PM   #1
kyokushin4life
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Interesting Enshin Karate's belt system.

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Q11
I have a black belt from another style of Karate, what is the equivilent belt in Enshin?

If you come from another style, you will be considered a beginner although you will be wearing an orange belt (which is not in our belt system) until you train for a while. We will then test you and provide you a belt from the Enshin belt system based on your skills (from blue to black).
http://www.virginiakarate.com/faq.php#011

I thought this system was very interesting, this is not something I have seen in my organization. People from other styles always wore white belts at the start.

Osu.
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Old 10-22-2006, 09:26 PM   #2
Rexkwondo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyokushin4life View Post
http://www.virginiakarate.com/faq.php#011

I thought this system was very interesting, this is not something I have seen in my organization. People from other styles always wore white belts at the start.

Osu.
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Not all Enshin instructors require you to wear an orange belt if you come from another style. I myself did Kenpo before i started Enshin. Sensei Ralph Rhoades had me wear a white belt when i started not an orange belt.
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Old 10-24-2006, 03:07 PM   #3
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I'm a nidan in Kyokushin and I trained for eight months at Hombu with Kancho as a white belt. I was a little shocked that they enforce the rule even for kyokushin , but it didn't bothered me to much. The only major difference from kyokushin are the sabaki techniques anyway. It was a great experience.
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Old 11-22-2006, 05:41 PM   #4
SHIHAN MERCADO
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IT IS UNBELIEVABLE. When students come to my dojo from another kyokushin dojo or from an offshoot of kyokushin I let them keep their rank just as long I can verify it.
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Old 03-21-2008, 02:55 PM   #5
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Osu! Mercado,

I'm curious - why UNBELIEVABLE? There's more to a style than a name and a badge. I came from Kyokushin (4th Dan) and was given an orange belt when I went to Denver. No problem. I soon found out that there was a lot more differences than similarities when I looked beyond the Kihon, so why would I expect to be an instant black belt?

Before joining Enshin I investigated several other (Kyokushin & offshoots) groups. Many offered to recognise my grade over the phone, one even offering - for a fee - a promotion. This without even meeting me or training with me. Kancho Ninomiya's 'no free grades' policy was one of the deciding factors in joining.

Gary
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Last edited by GJEC; 03-21-2008 at 05:18 PM.
Old 03-21-2008, 04:19 PM   #6
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Keep in mind that this is a fairly old thread, so don't expect immediate response from Mercado. But I understand you perfectly. I too am against "free grades", not to mention "paid grades". A grade is earned, not given or bought, that brings meaning to it, and that is why other people respect it. A belt has no monetary value, it is valued by the effort and dedication you show in order to attain it.

In order to keep a standard of quality for the yudansha in your organisation, you have to say that a rank given in another style does not qualify to a rank in your style. Otherwise you have no guarantees of the skills of that student. If you did, where would the line go? Would you accept a yudansha from a different, but similar style? Or would you accept all yudansha, no matter if it is Kyokushin, Shoto-kan, Judo, BJJ, etc.? In my opinion, you can't do that, you have to draw the line and say that everybody starts from scratch. Of course, if the student proves his worth, I am all in for a faster progress and skipping grades. Sorry, that was a bit off-track.

Nevertheless. It's interesting that some Enshin dojo reserve the orange belt for those who have attained a rank in a different style, but who does not hold a rank in Enshin. It shows that even though the student is new to Enshin, he is not completelly green. I think this is a good idea.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GJEChamberlain View Post
Osu! Mercado,

I'm curious - why UNBELIEVABLE? There's more to a style than a name and a badge. I came from Kyokushin (4th Dan) and was given an orange belt when I went to Denver. No problem. I soon found out that there was a lot more differences than similarities when I looked beyond the Kihon, so why would I expect to be an instant black belt?

Before joining Enshin I investigated several other (Kokushin & offshoots) groups. Many offered to recognise my grade over the phone, one even offering - for a fee - a promotion. This without even meeting me or training with me. Kancho Ninomiya's 'no free grades' policy was one of the deciding factors in joining.

Gary
The orange belt system sounds logical - you are not a total beginner, but still new to the style. I would never expect to be able go to another style and keep my belt. Now - how about naming the person who offered you a promotion. I think people like that should be named and shamed!
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Old 03-21-2008, 05:23 PM   #8
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Osu! jcc,

LOL - I'll pass on that, if you don't mind. I'm determined to keep civil on this board, so as a junior member I won't be slagging anyone off. Suffice to say he's given himself a VERY high grade. No more clues!

We do however give (former) high grades the option to test to black belt after a sufficient period of training. I currently have a 3rd Dan from World Oyama karate training with us. He's happily checked his ego in at the door, bought an Enshin Gi and put on an Orange belt. He still trains alongside the other black belts and is learning fast. To expect him to go through all the kyu grades seems unrealistically strict, so when he's ready he may test straight to black belt.

How long will that take? Depends on the individual. One thing I know though from past experience is that if you let someone walk straight in and wear a black belt, the excitement of learning and building up for the re-test is diminished. Most who get a black belt in a tough style have enough about them to rise to the challenge and learn quickly. If they haven't got that drive, I'd have to wonder if I'd want them training anyway.

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Last edited by GJEC; 03-21-2008 at 05:33 PM.
Old 03-21-2008, 05:38 PM   #9
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OK, I understand, but had to ask! There are too many charlatans out there giving us all a bad name
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:25 AM   #10
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Osu! jcc,

No worries. I'm sure you will understand my reluctance to slag him or anyone else off. He was surprised at the time that I didn't jump at his generous (?) offer, but I think the fact that I've been around a bit longer than most has fine tuned my BS detector.

Gary
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GJEChamberlain View Post
Osu! jcc,

No worries. I'm sure you will understand my reluctance to slag him or anyone else off. He was surprised at the time that I didn't jump at his generous (?) offer, but I think the fact that I've been around a bit longer than most has fine tuned my BS detector.

Gary
Of course. Glad to hear that your BS detector is in good order
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GJEChamberlain View Post
Osu! jcc,

No worries. I'm sure you will understand my reluctance to slag him or anyone else off. He was surprised at the time that I didn't jump at his generous (?) offer, but I think the fact that I've been around a bit longer than most has fine tuned my BS detector.

Gary
BS detector -got any spare?
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Old 03-22-2008, 02:15 PM   #13
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Osu!

I hadn't come across this transitional belt idea before, but it sounds a bit like the wheel. I very good idea I should have thought of myself.

It's an ideal way to inform other members that the new person has prior experience, but it doesn't burden that individual with the expectations of a particular grade in the new Dojo.

Yes, a very good idea.

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Old 03-23-2008, 08:02 PM   #14
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I too would concur that it is a unique way to go about recognizing that the student has walked into the dojo with experience, but allows them to go about proving themselves in the new dojo.

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Old 03-23-2008, 08:35 PM   #15
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Osu! Dent & Vapor,

When I first went to Denver I was told Orange belt was "Uchi-Deshi colour" on the basis that many had previous experience but started afresh when committing themselves to three years hard training as live-in students.

Just to make it clear that I use this myself for the reasons described for new members with previous (good & relevant) experience, even though they are not Uchi-Deshi it does help the transition. I am by no means certain every Branch does this, as a previous post remarked upon.

Gary
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Old 03-26-2008, 03:07 PM   #16
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Osu! Gary,

Understood. I still think it's a darn good idea, and should be applied in all Dojo. IMO, it would really make life easier for all concerned.

Osu!
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:18 AM   #17
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Hi Gary can you tell me how many enshin branches there are in the UK? I sent you a pm
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:39 AM   #18
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Osu! Ronro,

Established branch in Loughborough, and now black belts in Northern Ireland, York, Derbyshire and London. I'll respond to your PM with contact details.

Gary
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