»

[kakatootoshi]

Dojo Yaburi is Dojo Challenge.
Does anyone have experiences of Dojo Yaburi (both issuing and accepting it)?
Sometimes Dojo Yaburi is done in "subtle" ways, perhaps someone "poses" as a beginner but tries to beat people up in unfriendly ways (not to be confused with very talented beginners who have backgrounds in other MAs). Please also feel free to share the experinces of how "very very disrespectful beginners" have been dealt with in your dojo.

OSU!

[kyofighter]

Back in Romania in the early 90s I had a dojo in my home town. Those days in Romania martial arts were at the verry beginning due to the fact that in communism it was illegal to practice them. Anyways , one day in the midlle of the class 4 guys walked in and seat down on the bench to watch the class. After couple minutes they started to laugh loud , I went there and I asked them politely to keep quiet during our practice . They promised (kinda not to seriously) that they will . After another five minutes they laughed again loud and pointing fingers to our beginners. I went again there and I said to them that if one more time show disrespect I will have to ask them to leave. They said : Oh yeah, how you gona do that ? ... and they all get up and face me. That moment I just raised my right arm and 10 of my adult advance students lined up behind me looking ready for action.(that was our code for help) Just like I thought they shut up and left the dojo right away and never come back. The word spred about kyokushin karate in my town and no matter were we went we had great respect since that minor incident.

I know this wasn't a real yaburi , but it was kinda similar. I never had anyone challenge me in anyway in my 15 years of teaching.
Sometimes when I sparr with beginners and they don't know me , because of my control and holding back they think that that's all what I got , so they go hard believing that this is the time to beat a nidan. Well, from my experience I learned that the most efficient and easyest way to readjust the situation is a wazari or even a safe ippon (like gedan mawashi or chudan tsuki). Usually they realize how things are for real.

[orisha66]

Oh yes. It was 1990, leaving NY for a new life, so i thought...When i was training at the first Shotokan dojo that i found, this dojo was very cool (no politics) they fought like W.O. Karate that's why it was easy to join this ryu. It was just an old building out on an old road, no sign, no advertising, you had to know someone to join. The Sensei was a very good martial artist, his Shotokan was blended with Shuai Chiao. The Sensei was big into bible studies so after every class instead of paying, we had to study the bible and he would find the connection of martial arts and bible heroes.......There would be times when we would have class, fighters from all over the hood come knockin, lookin for a challenge with him. They were boxers, wrestlers, kung-fu cats came to the door all the time. He would except every challenge but they had to fight through the ranks, starting with the lowest rank and defeat them before he could fight with the Sensei. sounds familiar huh?. He had an old gi that was hanging on the wall that every challenger had to wear if they really wanted to fight. On the back of the Gi, had the kanji "BAKA". funny like a Fu-Flick yo. I dont know if it was because we were in columbus and everyone thought martial arts was like that all over or what. This kinda thing only happened in NY maybe a couple of times in my life with the Kyokushin. You know i wish i was telling a story but this kinda sh#% happened at about twice a month just like the "Last Dragon". Verdad YO, for real. The Sensei said that the challenges happened because he wasnt a big commercial dojo so most street-fighters figure that they could get a rep. I have been training karate for 30 years,teaching for 10 years. Ive been challenged before at others dojos but never mine.

I just got a challenge from an old class mate of that same Shoto dojo set for June....

[kakatootoshi]

Dear kyofighter,
I am glad you spared their lives (I would have them leave all their wallets on the doorstep before they can go!) and yes your approach to beginners is very good, neither hurting them nor letting them think yourself/Kyokushin is weak.

Dear orisha66,
When I was reading the first few lines I thought YOU were the one to issue a challenge. What was the best record a "BAKA" could get? And you mean your next challenge a real fight or "who can drink more" at the bar?

OSU!

[Martin H]

When I just had started kyokushin back in the 80ies, a few of my sempais did Dojo Yaburi on a new tkd dojang in the area. Walked in and challenged them to a less than friendly sparring session. Beat the crap out of them.
Now I think it was stupid, but back then, I tought it was cool.

That is about as close to dojo breaking as Ive been.

[Shaolin Bushido]

"Dojo Yaburi" eh? I'd heard of dojo storming in the old days here in the states and recently a friend of mine who has trained Kyokushin(in his youth) told me stories of well known karateka who visited his dojo from abroad and did this very thing. I thought they must be really crazy to do that but maybe when you are hard core enough and tough enough you just do it. I can see it a bit better now that a karate term is applied to it and it sorta has a precedent .... a tradition.

I do remember when I first started any martial arts training and only for a few months that a Goju-Ryu stylist who also kickboxed stopped by our new fledling WTF Taekwondo dojang .... for a "friendly" match with our Sa Bum Nim. He politely declined. I'll never forget that Karateka's fists .... they were ENORMOUS! Comparatively our walking stances were like wilted grass! I shudder to think that I may have stuck with that style.

*shudders*

[kakatootoshi]

My view towards Dojo Yaburi.
I think the yaburi/anti-yaburi thing was very important in the past in the budo world. There were specific historical contexts under which the yaburi pratice was popular and it is unfair for us to denounce them with our modern values. The courage to issue and defend a REAL dojo yaburi deserves our resepct even if we may not agree with what they do.

In 2007 I do not like it, let us say you are the defender. If you fend off the attacker successfully, it does not really prove anything. And if you are beaten by the attacker, it does not mean that you do not deserve to wear your dogi or you have to close down your dojo or something. And if you know you are strong and you bump into a small dojo for some walking heavybags you are just being mean. It is like a Michelin Chef goes to a local takeaway and being a jerk saying the food is crap or so. You are lot better but you do not have to be so mean to give people a hard time, right? Ultimately respect in martial arts or Kyokushin comes from your ability PLUS the way you treat your fellow men.

OSU!

[orisha66]

Originally Posted by kakatootoshi

Dear kyofighter,
I am glad you spared their lives (I would have them leave all their wallets on the doorstep before they can go! and yes your approach to beginners is very good, neither hurting them nor letting them think yourself/Kyokushin is weak.

Dear orisha66,
When I was reading the first few lines I thought YOU were the one to issue a challenge. What was the best record a "BAKA" could get? And you mean your next challenge a real fight or "who can drink more" at the bar?
OSU!

From what i have known in the past, the uchi-deshi of Sosai handled the challenges the same way. The Sensei at the shoto dojo said if the challenger got past all the students that he chose, he said that the "BAKA" would be too tired and he would take him out easily anyway (hence the baka gi, and keeping reputation of his dojo (Rafique Fistiques)

The best record of a "BAKA" was a guy who came from judo school, the Gi didnt fit because he really big, like a Jr.Sumo big, he was the judo coach at USU, he had the nickname of "Tsunami", cant remember his real name but he was Funakoshi's (not G.Funakoshi) top Judoka who he took to Japan and i think he was in the olympics. but he went streight to the shodan in the class, who got tossed and then the Sensei came out. The fight was all that. The Sensei fought "Tsunami" with Shuai Chiao techniques, but got tossed and then he fought him with his brand of shuai chiao-shotokan and won score was a tie. "Tsunami" was no joke, he knew his sh#*t!
My challenge is a real fight and kata challenge, the challenger set up the rules: 1 match point style 2 match jissen/takedowns with rib protecters - 3 rounds each. I think he called it becuase hes turning 45 this year, i'll be 41 even though i dont look it , must be the island blood yo. and afterwords we hit the nearest reggae y salsa spot and have those cervesas y mojitos

[orisha66]

Ahi! You think I can can a movie contract for this guys???

[kakatootoshi]

Dear orisha66,
Oh I think they have just founded the perfect new villain for "The Very Best of the Best" or "Kickboxer 10".

OSU!

[ksan]

Havent heard of any dojo challenges around here....

The only thing i have seen and heard (and experienced) that came close is that when it was grading time the dojo that did grading would call in the best fighters from other dojo`s.


Osu

Ksan

[kakatootoshi]

Dear ksan,
That is different from what I have been thinking (I am under bad influence of "Karate Baka Ichidai" and also the history of Dutch Kyokushin is long). Thanks for letting us know the truth.

P.S. Could it be that you just cannot find people who dare Yaburi whenever YOU are there in the dojo?

OSU!

[ksan]

Originally Posted by kakatootoshi

Dear ksan,
P.S. Could it be that you just cannot find people who dare Yaburi whenever YOU are there in the dojo?

*You just earned 1 million brownie points

[ryutogakure]

i was hoping to crash a few dojos in florida me and one of my good friends are looking into challenging some

[Azimuth]

Originally Posted by ksan

Havent heard of any dojo challenges around here....

The only thing i have seen and heard (and experienced) that came close is that when it was grading time the dojo that did grading would call in the best fighters from other dojo`s.


Osu

Ksan

We are invited from time to time to do so but not only for gradings , also just for kumite training .

Fotoalbum - Kyodo Dojo

[Kiryu]

Dojo breakers ???? this kind of guys does still exist?
I think it was only in movies and mangas...

[Dent]

Osu! Dear KakatoOtoshi,

Originally Posted by kakatootoshi

My view towards Dojo Yaburi.
I think the yaburi/anti-yaburi thing was very important in the past in the budo world. There were specific historical contexts under which the yaburi pratice was popular and it is unfair for us to denounce them with our modern values. The courage to issue and defend a REAL dojo yaburi deserves our resepct even if we may not agree with what they do.

In 2007 I do not like it, let us say you are the defender. If you fend off the attacker successfully, it does not really prove anything. And if you are beaten by the attacker, it does not mean that you do not deserve to wear your dogi or you have to close down your dojo or something. And if you know you are strong and you bump into a small dojo for some walking heavybags you are just being mean. It is like a Michelin Chef goes to a local takeaway and being a jerk saying the food is crap or so. You are lot better but you do not have to be so mean to give people a hard time, right? Ultimately respect in martial arts or Kyokushin comes from your ability PLUS the way you treat your fellow men.

OSU!

You're giving a good argument, and making me feel a little bad about some of my past actions, but I do ask, What about the frauds? Those people whose claims are not only ridiculous, but also potentially dangerous to their students?

Talking may convince a few people that an individual is a fraud, but walking through the door and challenging them is a more immediate lesson.

Sincerely waiting for your thoughts.

Osu!

[kakatootoshi]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu! Dear KakatoOtoshi,



You're giving a good argument, and making me feel a little bad about some of my past actions, but I do ask, What about the frauds? Those people whose claims are not only ridiculous, but also potentially dangerous to their students?

Talking may convince a few people that an individual is a fraud, but walking through the door and challenging them is a more immediate lesson.

Sincerely waiting for your thoughts.

Osu!

Dear Dent,
You are asking if we should take law to our own hands if the law does not servce justice. First of all, there may (or may not be) legal consequences. The fraud can dial 911 and says there is someone trespassing. And while there are many frauds in our world, there are equally as many people who want to taste blood for fun. And what charges will award a "fraud" a Dojo Yaburi? Students doing poorly in tournaments? Organization differences? And what the the rules for fights in "Dojo Yaburi"? When to stop? These are only some of the many questions in mind.

But I think you are being correct in your case. First of all if a Dojo is not "Dent Approved", it must be a fraud. And second, Dojo Yaburi was more popular sixty years ago. Only I could not imagine that he needed to fight. Upon his entrance, people inside the dojo would all stand in Fudo Dachi, say "Yes Boss!" and wait for inspection

OSU!

[ksan]

Originally Posted by Azimuth

We are invited from time to time to do so but not only for gradings , also just for kumite training .

Fotoalbum - Kyodo Dojo

I like those things... makes for good inter dojo contact...

[Bismarck55]

You know, I Don't think that there is anything disrespectful about issuing a challenge at another dojo, as long as its not personal or too aggressive.
In fact, it would not surprise me if Sosai himself did this when he was younger.
I think that martial artists sometimes forget that they are martial artists.
If it were going out and picking street fights it would be a whole other matter, but I don't think theres really much harm in issuing a yaburi.