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Old 04-02-2008, 09:02 AM   #1
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The Future of Kyokushin?

What is the Future of Kyokushin Karate?

It is well known that Kyokushin Karate is one of the most popular forums of Martial Arts in the World.

People lately start looking at Martial Arts Differently and they are becoming more interested in things like MMA, the traditional forums of Martial Arts and the whole idea about it isn't so popular and appealing as it was many years ago.

But yet Kyokushin managed to stay Traditional and managed to preserve the budo in it.
I personally think that’s because of the teaching of Sosai Mas Oyama and many of his students and true followers of Kyokushin Karate.

I believe Kyokushin will survive the changes that future will hold and continue the fight.
The only thing that concerns me is all the politics that developed through the years now it's sad when you look at it and it is growing day after day.

Politics and splits in kyokushin started in an early stage even when Sosai was still with us and when he passed away it became even worst!!

In other forums of Martial Arts there are many organizations that teach the same forum it has always been like that and members of those organizations have no problem with it and do see anything wrong with having more than one group.

It's not the same in Kyokushin we started as one and this is how I want it to be always, I don't want to:

1- Not to be able to train in a dojo because they belong to a different group.
2-Not to be able to fight in a tournament because my Kanji or logo is different.
3-Not to be able to teach a different dojo then the one I train in Kata because they do it different.

This is the world we are living in now and if Kyokushin became no more its because of Kyokushin members who allowed for such a thing to happen.

So Now where do you see the future of Kyokushin in which group or organization? That’s a hard question to ask.

If you allow me I will tell you a story of a group of Kyokushin members in my home country of Kuwait who am proud to be one of them.

We used to train in different Dojos and have our own actives like any other Country in the world. But We decided that it is time to change so we established the Kuwait Committee of Kyokushin Karate.

Founders of this committee came from different groups and organization we still keep the identity and system of each group but when it came to competitions and activists we train and fight as one.

So Now I can train in a WKO Dojo make friends over there and when a WKO member wants to enter seminar run by IFK because they have Hanshi Steve arneil visiting Kuwait they are most welcome.

I believe we young generation of Kyokushin in Kuwait did make a change and we managed to become one again after many years of splits and problems so I am very proud of that.

Finally I wish all kyokushin members around the world the very best and try your best to become one again … OSU!!!
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:52 AM   #2
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Change is inevitable but as you have proved in Kuwait it can be a good thing.

Will Kyokushin ever be one again? No is the short answer. Too many bridges have been burnt.

What is the future of Kyokushin? You are!!
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:57 AM   #3
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I'm not sure, is that the case in the present? are we not allowed to train in other organisations?
if there are 'branch chiefs' who aren't welcoming to other groups of the same style, they are not martial artists. and that is a truth.
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:08 AM   #4
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firstly i would like to congratulate you for what you have achieved in kuwait!

my personal opinion is that a lot of the "splits" were over money,perhaps you don`t have that problem in kuwait

i see a bright future for kyokushin,as mma evolve and are being televised how many times do you hear,"joe soap" has a kyokushin background?..by mentioning kyokushin this immediately gives the fighter "cred"

cred is the word...being basic, if you like a punch up, kyokushin can accomodate, if you are into traditional karate, kyokushin can accomodate,if you are into kata, kyokushin can accomodate, if you are after a sound footing in mma, or k1 kyokushin can accomodate, or if you just want to be a highly respected karateka into non contact/clicker/knockdown, kyokushin can accomodate!!

kyokushin is getting a lot of publicity at the moment and the vibes i am getting through this forum is that the powers that be are starting to realise the future would be even brighter with a unified kyokushin, when a few high profile people decide to swallow their ego`s and follow the lead of people like yourselves and get everybody under the same umbrella,the future will be bright, it will be kyokushin
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeen View Post
the future will be bright, it will be kyokushin
Orange rang - they want their tagline back!
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloke View Post
Orange rang - they want their tagline back!
bloke, to tell you the truth i cringed after i clicked the submit button
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:27 AM   #7
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It made me laugh though - which is nice.
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:34 AM   #8
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LOL!


(yesss... another post, gettin closer to my forum black belt )
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:59 AM   #9
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Don't forget all those heads of their own organisation won't be at that place for ever, maybe the future generation will be able to sit together and maybe fusion some organsiations, or just allow members from other organisations to train there.

Think positive and let time do what is needed.

Osu
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Simon_ View Post
LOL!


(yesss... another post, gettin closer to my forum black belt )
are you saying people shouldn`t post,surely that`s the idea of a forum,or am i wrong.....if you think i am please explain
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:04 PM   #11
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OH, no no i didn't mean that at all, it's just that we have the belt below our names, and sometimes i write meaningless posts just to get my colour to slowly change! hehehe thus 'scamming' the system! well not really scamming, in a jokin way of course lol. sorry if it sounded differently!

osu
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Simon_ View Post
OH, no no i didn't mean that at all, it's just that we have the belt below our names, and sometimes i write meaningless posts just to get my colour to slowly change! hehehe thus 'scamming' the system! well not really scamming, in a jokin way of course lol. sorry if it sounded differently!

osu
simon you obviously have a sense of humour, you should post more, i look forward to some future banter!!
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Old 04-02-2008, 01:46 PM   #13
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Cool

Here in Brazil IKO1 is the strongest, period. It's very well organized, and the trainnings are REALLY hard. But I know that in other coutries de situation might be different.
Anyway, my concerns about the future of kyokushin are more about thoughness and techniques.
I did some WTF TKD ....after that Muay Thay along with BJJ. I loved those...expecially Muay Thai.....but I always wanted to practice Kyokushin (I firt heard about it when I was like 10 years old in a magazine - Ademir da Costa and Francisco Filho interview).
But it's kind of hard to find kyokushin Dojos here in Brazil and I never had the opportunitie until a couple of years ago. What atracted me in Kyokushin was the tradition and the straight foward approach to fight....kyokushin is really hard....and I love that, and has a lot more to offer than just kumite....well.....therefore I'm not concerned about people getting into kyokushin...It's not for everyone anyway.
In Brazil kyokushin was never popular ( no one knows about Francisco Filho or Ewerton teixeira...never played anything on tv ...etc), because it's too hard, and Shihan Isobe kept it that way....to select the people that will practice it.....I'm worried, because I have the felling that many people are concerned abou the popularity of kyokushin....and in orther to turn it popular...many people allow a "soft" way of karate. For exemple...I found a number of "semi contact" or "semi konockdown" kyokushin.....that's bullshit.....that is fake karate not true karate. In the 70's they took of face punches, after that thei banned grabbing and hitting (like grab the dogi and hiza gueri).....what will thei do next in orther to make kyokushin less hardcore?
I also have seen videos showing padded kumite....shin protection, helmets....body armor like TKD....people that's MacDojo's stuff!!! I'm affraid that people might turn kyokushin into a new Muay Thai (an art I really respect and LOVE)....were there are Gyms(Dojos) where the true art is being practiced (with devasteding fighters) and most of the Gyms (Dojos) are teaching "exotic" really soft crap.....
That really worries me.......
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Old 04-02-2008, 02:18 PM   #14
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OSU Brazilian Berserker!

I understand what you are saying and i agree with you...however, one thing i am not understanding (that is cause i don't have experience in it and would like someone to tell me about it), is that is Kyokushin Dojo's always Full contact, Full Knockdown, Zero Pads in everything they do?

Meaning, when doing free fighting at the end of the class...is that done with full contact, full knockdown, and no pads? I do Oyama Karate in New York, and when we do free fighting at the end of each class we utilize Shin/Instep Pads, Cup, Mouth Piece, and Some wears lightly padded gloves, and we do light contact to beginners, medium contact to intermediates...and sometimes depending on students we do slightly heavy contact, and we don't do full knockdown. When we kick or knee to the face/head, we always pull back.

Am i missing something that other Kyokushin Dojos are doing?

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Old 04-02-2008, 02:26 PM   #15
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hi brazilian berserker+osu!

i agree with a lot of what you say especially the gi grab/hizza geri rule being taken away,however...............

kyokushin is not just about full on knockdown,although i much prefer this.

one of the greatest kyokushin legends, brian fitkin was a member of the english or it may have been british all styles non-contact karate team along with ticky donovan who were the first non-japanese team to lift the world title, trained by hanshi arneil.

i have seen numerous british kyokushin karateka win non-contact and "clicker" opens which just goes to show the versatility of kyokushin and our instuctors.

these fighters were also world class knockdown exponents too.

if you have the time have a look at brian fitkins career, or even jeff wybrow whom a week after returning from the world open knockdown in japan won a british open non-contact title with an ippon ushiro geri in the final, that in my opinion is class i hope all is well in brazil

bloke/gary:
[please correct me if my history is incorrect but this is how i remember it]
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Last edited by kanku; 04-02-2008 at 02:36 PM.
Old 04-02-2008, 02:40 PM   #16
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Osu! Hasbeen,

No, that's how I remember it to. I think it's important to remember that skill training needs to be encouraged. If people are punished by full contact every time they spar, they tend to learn how to survive rather than how to win. (Not always the same)

In Enshin, Kancho Ninomiya insists on pads and working at a 'reasonable' level of contact in training, with genuine full-contact no-pads etc for Tournaments. He's as tough as they come so it's not about getting soft, but just realising that skills come first in the best fighters.

When Sosai Oyama devised the knockdown rules it was to be a test of spirit as well as technique, so 'easy' options like face punches and groin kicks - although practised in the dojo (I can still remember the 'thwack' and forced exhalation from all present at the old Leicester dojo when someone copped one on the 'box') were sensibly removed.

As for taking out grabbing (Early 80's?) This was a mistake (IMO) for anyone looking for a balanced system. I can understand why, but Kancho Ashihara and others either retained a '3 second grab' or immediately re-introduced it when breaking away. It was briefly re-instated for a trial period in the BKK after the split with Japan, but proved unpopular.

Most real fights end up at close range so being able to control the opponent is not only good to know but can be a life saver.

Sorry, got my soapbox out again ......

Gary
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Last edited by GJEC; 04-02-2008 at 02:59 PM.
Old 04-02-2008, 02:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GJEChamberlain View Post
Osu! Hasbeen,

No, that's how I remember it to. I think it's important to remember that skill training needs to be encouraged. If people are punished by full contact every time they spar, they tend to learn how to survive rather than how to win. (Not always the same)

Kancho Ninomiya insists on pads and working at a 'reasonable' level of contact in training, with genuine full-contact no-pads etc for Tournaments. He's as tough as they come so it's not about getting soft, but just realising that skills come first in the best fighters.

As for taking out grabbing. This was a mistake for anyone looking for a balanced system. I can understand why, but Kancho Ashihara and others immediately re-introduced it when breaking away. It was briefly re-instated for a trial period in the BKK after the split with Japan, but proved unpopular.

Most real fights end up at close range so being able to control the opponent is not only good to know but can be a life saver.

Sorry, got my soapbox out again ......

Gary
OSU GARY!!

this is a real issue of mine, i understand the no grab/knee rule was introduced by sosai after hans lundgren nearly took the head off of one of his fighters, in a way handicapping the taller european/american/australasian fighters.
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Old 04-02-2008, 02:58 PM   #18
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Osu! Hasbeen,

I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me in the least!

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Old 04-02-2008, 02:58 PM   #19
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kansetsu,

Yes here we train without pads, all the times and we do kumite in every class, just before the katas. From 5 to 10 rounds. Of course not everyone fights to a knockdown....the beginners, the kids.....people take easy on then.....but....always looking for inprovement......always going a little harder than last time. Of course always under a strict supervision from the sensei, or the sempai.
The others...(more advanced, adults, and people like me that have some full contact background),.....fight from 50% force to 100% force all the time.....no pads....sometimes a mouthpiece....and that is it.
best way to learn how to fight...is fighting. Gloves? never...only when we do face punching. Everyclass has conditioning (shins, forearms, knuckles, ribs....)
That's the way I like it....in the streets you don't wear gloves....in the championships you don't wear pads....
Pulling the knees or kicks.....creates bad habits.
Once Shihan Isobe said in a interview here in Brazil: "If you got kicked in the head, it's not merit of your opponent, it's is your fault, you should have blocked it".
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:02 PM   #20
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Osu! Brazilian Berserker,

Each to their own. The two competing parts of training are 'safety' and 'realism'

Every instructor decides where they want to place their classes. All produce results in the longer term. Some 'softer' teaching produces skilled fighters that have been spared career ending training accidents, and some 'hard' teaching produces fighters that managed to keep in one piece.

As for me, I want students to enjoy and benefit from training, so I'll stick to pads!

Gary
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Last edited by GJEC; 04-02-2008 at 03:07 PM.
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