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Old 03-31-2009, 05:44 PM   #1
Brazilian Berseker
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Smile Uechi Ryu - Full contact sparring?

Hi everyone!
Yesterday I was watching a channel here in Brazil that is focused in Martial Arts ( 99% Bjj and MMA unfortunately) and they were showing Uechi Ryu from a Dojo in Brasilia (Capital of Brazil). Something about that really intrigued me....they said they were Uechi Ryu, but they also said they were "full contact karate" and as the sensei was explaining the rules for kumite I noticed that this rules were exactly like knockdown kyokushin. I used to think that Uechi Ryu was an "traditional style" like Shotokan or Goju Ryu with no contact or semi contact kumite.
My question since Uechi Ryu is almost inexistent here in Brazil and I don't really know the style......Is Uechi Ryu an "full contact style" like kyokushin shidokan, daido juku, Ashihara, Enshin and others? How good are they in kumite? Any opinions about the style, their way of fighting etc?
Please I wanto to know more about then...I really like to know as much as possible about as many styles as possible.

Tks, and OSU!
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:28 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazilian Berseker View Post
Is Uechi Ryu an "full contact style" like kyokushin shidokan, daido juku, Ashihara, Enshin and others? How good are they in kumite? Any opinions about the style, their way of fighting etc?
Please I wanto to know more about then...I really like to know as much as possible about as many styles as possible.

Tks, and OSU!
I haven't personally studied Uechi-ryu, but it was very popular where I am originally from, and many of my friends studied it. It is resembles Goju-ryu in many aspects, and relies on Sanchin, Seisan, and Sanseirui a lot. They really emphasize toughness of the body and very practical as self-defense, as there is much dissection of kata, or bunkai. They also did a lot of breaking, similar to Kyokushin, ie... bats.

I don't remember their sparring being similar to Kyokushin. It looked more like point sparring, but with more contact. They were very tough guys though... very!

I did find a couple of youtube links:





Osu,
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:30 PM   #3
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I've never done uechi ryu but from what I read its a sister art to goju ryu karate and it has a strong focus on conditioning i searched for fighting scenes but i only found point sparring.

but it's not unheard of to have full contact sparring in traditional okinawan karate heard a lot in goju ryu doing it.

edit:
didn't see the post above me

nice vids especially the second one
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Last edited by whatever123; 03-31-2009 at 06:37 PM.
Old 03-31-2009, 07:48 PM   #4
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They resemble cousin arts because Uechi ryu/pangai noon seems to look more like Yong Chun baihe(white crane) than goju does. I would venture to say Uechi has more of a "Chinese martial art" flavor to it than goju does is what I'm getting at.

Uechi ryu typically does WKF point style tournaments and I have never seen them do knockdown kumite but perhaps that instructor has competed in knockdown kumite and prefers to do that. I have seen a few shotokan and goju instructors do that.
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Old 03-31-2009, 07:49 PM   #5
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One of the biggest political splits in Okinawan karate was about Kumite between the Full-contact bogu kumite and the No-contact. Somehow, the No-contact seemed to win out in mainland Japan. If I recall in one of Mas Oyama's early books (I'm thinking "Essential Karate"?) displays Bogu kumite.
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Old 03-31-2009, 08:07 PM   #6
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Actually a lot of the Okinawan masters were against jiyu kumite at all e.g. Funakoshi and Miyagi while on the other hand you would have those that test their skills in real street fights in the red light district like Motobi
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Old 03-31-2009, 08:11 PM   #7
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Talking

Tks everybody for your responses.....please let's continue sharing knowledge.

My initial idea was that Uechi Ryu was kind of related to Goju as stated before. Seens that I was not completely wrong....

Osu!
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:35 PM   #8
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Osu!

I have studied Renbukai karate and World Oyama karate.
I do have a book on Uechi Ryu by Thor Ryamaruk.
In this book, they go into detail on the variations of different waza.
For example, on the Eagle Claw strike, they might have different
finger positions emphasizing certain fingers over others. They believe in
conditioning the joints to take impact. For example, they curl the toes
backwards instead of forwards on the front kick. (Kin geri) On a variation
of the spearhand (nukite) they go past the target and emphasize striking witht the joint of the thumb. These type of attacks can cause tremendous amount of pain and injury to people of other styles who do not train like this.
I imagine it would take many years to toughen these specific areas for effective combat and to cause trauma to the opponent. They also do a lot
of body toughening drills with the shinai and with training partners similiar to
Morio Higaonna's Okinawan Goju Ryu system.
It seems like a high maintenance style to acquire skill development, body
toughening and the maintenance of body toughening. The kicking methods appear to be of the old Okinawan influence. The front kick. Little is mentioned about the other basic kicks such as the side kick, roundhouse kick
let alone the other fancy spinning kicks. The primary stance is the sanchin (horseshoe stance). I cannot really assess the effectiveness of the style.
I do not believe the Uechi Ryu tournaments are open to other styles.
Based on the limited stances, mobility etc., I would imagine there style
of fighting is not suited for sport competition, but more for close range hand to hand combat.
I do not recall Kyokushin karate ever doing Bogu fighting. I know that Mas Oyama did bareknuckle fighting to the face in the pretournament days. However, to make it more accessible and safe to the greater martial arts population, he adopted the no face punch rule. To make it safe with face punches, he would have to use boxing gloves. However, Mas Oyama did not want his style to be confused with American kickboxing. Although, Mas Oyama had his students continue to train in face punches during training, I think this practice has become less and less today as some Kyokushin schools
have adopted more of a sport outlook vs. a well rounded self-defense system of the past. Some of the modern Kyokushin offshoots like Shidokan, Seidokaikan, Daidojuku, Enshin etc. have adopted bits and pieces of a more well rounded curriculum than the modern Kyokushin systems.
In the early development of Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu, Kenwa Mabuni experimented with Bogu style sparring and self defense methods. Other styles took it further and developed Bogu into a sport or variations of Bogu like Renbukai karate, Koshiki karate, Momonkai karate etc.
Osu!
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazilian Berseker View Post
Tks everybody for your responses.....please let's continue sharing knowledge.

My initial idea was that Uechi Ryu was kind of related to Goju as stated before. Seens that I was not completely wrong....

Osu!
Kanbun Uechi went to the Fukien province in china for several years and learned martial art. Before moving there he had learned some Staff/Bo, but nothing that unarmed. Unfortunately near the end of his stay he killed a man in a challenge fight, and quit martial art.
When he returned to Okinawa he had stopped training and would not teach anyone. Only decades later, when he had moved to mainland Japan, was he convinced by a friend to start teaching. and Uechi ryu was founded.
From there his son brought the style to okinawa.
I have always been amazed that it is considered a Okinawan style of karate.

Goju ryu was founded by Chojun Miyagi. Both he and his okinawan Teacher, Kanryu Higashionna, went to Fukien province in China to improve their martial arts.

So there is a connection through the chinese arts they studied in Fukien.
Some of the katas taught are the same, as sanchin -Although the versions done are very different.
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:42 AM   #10
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this thread needs one of those "the more you know" stars with its little music...
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sokaiya View Post
One of the biggest political splits in Okinawan karate was about Kumite between the Full-contact bogu kumite and the No-contact. Somehow, the No-contact seemed to win out in mainland Japan. If I recall in one of Mas Oyama's early books (I'm thinking "Essential Karate"?) displays Bogu kumite.
Yes, it was Essential karate and I only know of Koei Kan and renshinkan(not sure about the latter) still doing bogu kumite but perhaps there is much more, I don't know.
I've never done bogu kumite and never want to...I hated wearing the chest protectors enough in TKD competition.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:57 AM   #12
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Osu! I have to ask - what is bogu kumite?
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman View Post
Osu! I have to ask - what is bogu kumite?
Almost like doing kumite with kendo bogu/armor. It's somewhat modified these days but I think when it was first started it was literally with the same gear you wear in kendo.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerof0ne View Post
Almost like doing kumite with kendo bogu/armor. It's somewhat modified these days but I think when it was first started it was literally with the same gear you wear in kendo.
Yes. originally they used kendo armor (because it was easy to get), but nowdays they use specialized paddings -which differs between organizations.
otherwise its full contact sparring. Sometimes its continuous fighting (you go on until someone goes down) at other times it is just first-hit-wins point sparring, only with power and padding instead of skintouch only.

Its seen in some Okinawan styles and only very rarely in mainland japanese styles.

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Old 04-01-2009, 02:28 PM   #15
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Bogu Karate

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Old 04-01-2009, 04:49 PM   #16
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I might be going off-topic here but kakatootoshi or anyone that knows about the posted vids could explain the differences between them?

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Old 04-01-2009, 04:53 PM   #17
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Well,
Master Uechi did KD well before Oyam did....as did most of the style back then [pre 60's - 70's]
One needs to remember that Kyokushin was a blended style not a new concept of a style.

Oyama took the best of what Oyama felt was worth anything from all the styles and or teachers he incontered.
He did not like shotokan nor did he like their ideas of how to train, that is why he left and stated so. He left as a Nidan, but that was high back then since Funakoshi was only Godan...[Yes Funakoshi never had rank higher than Godan]

He did like Goju and the power and strength of it. He became friends with Yamagushi and later yamagushi let him teach Kyokushin in his dojo and often attended classes.

Oyama brought KD out of the closet and into the puplics eye, that is what partly made Kyokushin grow.
So when you think about KD, remember that Kyoklushin keep it as all the other styles dropped it to move onto new ideas of what Karate was to them....
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Old 04-01-2009, 05:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
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this thread needs one of those "the more you know" stars with its little music...


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Old 04-01-2009, 07:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitterbut View Post
Well,
Master Uechi did KD well before Oyam did....as did most of the style back then [pre 60's - 70's]
One needs to remember that Kyokushin was a blended style not a new concept of a style.

Oyama took the best of what Oyama felt was worth anything from all the styles and or teachers he incontered.
He did not like shotokan nor did he like their ideas of how to train, that is why he left and stated so. He left as a Nidan, but that was high back then since Funakoshi was only Godan...[Yes Funakoshi never had rank higher than Godan]

He did like Goju and the power and strength of it. He became friends with Yamagushi and later yamagushi let him teach Kyokushin in his dojo and often attended classes.

Oyama brought KD out of the closet and into the puplics eye, that is what partly made Kyokushin grow.
So when you think about KD, remember that Kyoklushin keep it as all the other styles dropped it to move onto new ideas of what Karate was to them....
From what I remember Funakoshi didn't want to rank higher than godan and if I remember right Kano didn't even hold dan rank in Judo and he also didn't want dan in Judo to go higher than godan or something along those lines. I'm at work right now or I'd probably waste some time trying to find some links to back this up.
In regards to Oyama and goju ryu I have always read and been told that it was Nei-Chi So who really was his goju instructor although I don't know truly how much contact Oyama had with Yamaguchi Gogen or how much influence he had. However, Nei-Chi So was said to be quite the goju expert by Yamaguchi, himself.
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerof0ne View Post
if I remember right Kano didn't even hold dan rank in Judo and he also didn't want dan in Judo to go higher than godan or something along those lines.
iirc Jigoro Kano was ranked as a 12th degree due to being the founder. you might be thinking of the professorship aspect of Judo though. if someone is good enough and has contributed enough to Judo they can be awarded a professorship of Judo which is seperate from the black belt ranks. its not dependant on any prerequisite rank and is exceedingly rare.

im also pretty sure he was the one that introduced the dan ranks based on things he had learned about teaching methods while travelling abroad. people forget that he was a teacher and professor at schools and colleges during his life.
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