front kick questions

[dethhead]

osu!
hi everyone, ive got some questions regarding this kick.

mae geri

in the now off line kyokushinbasics.com site they had two types of mae-geri.
(1) mae-geri chudan and (2) mae-ganman-geri jodan.
i know these two kicks are just mae geri aimed at a different part of the body but we've only (at my dojo) just practiced mae geri which we're told is to be aimed at the midsection. how many schools out there use the above 2 different names in the kihon?

second question, is mae kakato geri just the same as mae geri except using the heel to connect instead of the ball of foot? as it has come to my attention that ive been kicking with my heel and not my ball of foot.

thanks.

osu!

[Spirit]

I teach the mae geri it be used any place from the cafl to the neck using ball of foot to heel (yes to your ? on Kakato geri)
I beleive that mae geri is a under used tool and many feel that it is not strong of fast to use.
I also see many people teaching or using the kick incorrectly or better exacuting it incorrectly. Often the kick is taught as a snap and not taught as a thrust...
We teachit to be use as a jab to a K/O kick, it is functional and versatile weapon.

[seienchin]

Mae Geri can be delivered anywhere you want it. Gedan Kakato Mae Geri (into the knee of you opponent) is a devastating and destructive technique, that will permanently disable them. You just have to be very, very accurate. Jodan kakato mae geri (aiming for the chin) is a real jaw-breaker. (no pun intended).

Mae Geri can be used with either chusoku (ball of foot) or Kakato (Heel). Generally speaking, it is difficult to penetrate effectively at chudan with the kakato (the biomechanics just aren't helping you). A good chusoku to the solar-plexus is a great technique, that can slip under the guard of somebody who is expecting something fancy.

So, to answer your question, generally speaking in basic, in my school, we used to practice chusoku, but would sometimes practice jodan kakato mae geri as well.

With all of the mae geri's the most important thing is to remember the discipline of tuck, extend, tuck and down. the tighter and faster your tuck, the harder it will be for your opponent to intercept or avoid.
Cheers

[kakatootoshi]

Dear deathhead,

Originally Posted by dethhead

how many schools out there use the above 2 different names in the kihon?

You have been given very professional advice about the techniques and let me address the lingo part of your question.

The names in your questions are understood without problems, but I have to say that they are English, or at best coined English words with Japanese pronunciations. First of all, in your case “jodan” or “chudan” should come first. Second, if the mae geri is jodan, “ganmen” should be taken away as you are kicking the head anyway. I am by no means criticizing those who address their techniques with these names so please do not take offense. I have seen many of these "constructed names" used outside Japan and I think interestingly they have become a part of our Kyokushin tradition.

It is more important to perform a technique right then to say it “authentically”. As Kyokushin belongs to the whole world, these minor variations I think do not really matter.

OSU!

[smoothsake]

In my dojo we always refer to the two mae-geri as:

1. chudan mae geri
2. jodan mae geri

We practice mae geri in kihon as always using the chusoku but it makes perfect sense to use the kakato if the distance makes sense in the case of a jodan mae geri.

OSU!

[kakatootoshi]

I know many people also use their toes for mae geri. In a magazine I have read a kickboxing move of first touching the suigetsu of your opponent with chusoku then "pierce" it with toes. But if one does not have enough hardening for the toes, mae geri is a good way to break one's own toes.

OSU!

[Shokei Marcsui]

Yeah Mae Geri is a kick I do not use often in kumite because my toes always seem to catch an elbow.

[smoothsake]

Originally Posted by Shokei Marcsui

Yeah Mae Geri is a kick I do not use often in kumite because my toes always seem to catch an elbow.

That will only happen if your opponent closes his guard or twists away thus placing his elbow in front of his suigetsu, in either case you are probably not as guile as you should be. The mae geri is a quick effective waza but like anything only when your opponent is not expecting it.

[blackdog]

A mae geri of the front leg is an often under utilised kick in kumite.

A really quick chudan mae geri of the front foot can be very effective and very hard to stop.

Probably slightly less power than using the back leg, but quicker and harder to see, especially if you hide it under a punch.

Bren

[Satori]

Just a note on "mae kakato geri": I think of kakato geri as the kick where you have swept your opponent, you control their wrist with your hand and remaining upright you kick with the heel to their face (which is on the ground).

I do not use kakato with my mae geri's just because the ball of the foot is strong enough if the foot is properly formed and it gives me quite a bit more reach (which comes in very handy, especially when kicking mae geri to the head since people tend to jerk their head back to avoid high kicks).

We teach mae geri as both a snapping and a thrusting kick. If we're practicing drills, kekomi (thrusting) mae geri is the default, but for the purposes of some drills we may say to execute snapping mae geri's (that is, without putting the hip into them).

[kyofighter]

I use it mostly to stop/counter the opponent. It works well if you time it right.

[Spirit]

mmm, lets see
"A" for all the answers...
This was a great example of explaining and answering a post with clear answers.

[DaveHath]

Hard to speak to it's usefulness in Kyokushin as I am just starting to explore the style, however I have had great successes with both front and back leg variants, when sparring both in TKD(ITF and WTF) as well as Shotokan....it can be very useful in stopping an attacking opponents momentum when used as a strong thrust with good hip action....

[powerof0ne]

I primarily use a thrusting Thai style variation known as a "teep" and it has many different applications. One of my favorite ways to deliver it is to do an inside crescent kick but to drop it forward to a push kick/teep to the chin/face. Another flashy way to do a kakato geri which I never could do but have had try to be taught to me is to bring your leg up like an axe kick than come down and drop forward with the heel to the face.
Another fun way to annoy your opponent is to pinch the gi top with your toes and pull them into you while kicking a few times..try to see how much you can do it without putting your leg down .

[hasbeen]

if you can get a mai geri in on the back of a reverse punch it is a potential fight winner and much under used. [imo]

[Deaken]

OSU,

The way we teach it, Mai Geri and Kakato Geri are two separate and distinctive kicks.

Mai Geri is executed by lifting the leg/knee and then snapping the lower part of the leg/foot forward while thrusting the leg forward from your hips and striking with the ball of the foot (Chosuku). There are several targeted areas and terminology depending on if you strike with the front leg or the back and if its to the body or head:

Chudan (Midsection) Mai (front) Geri (kick) = forward or thrust kick to the midsection using the ball of the foot with the rear leg
Jodan (upper) Mai (front) Geri (kick) = same as Chudan but to the face
Chudan (upper) Mai (front) Mai (front) Geri (kick) = Same as above to the body but executed using the front leg instead of the rear
Jodan Mai Mai geri = Same as above with front leg to the face


Kakato (heel) Geri (kick) is essentially what is know as an axe kick and is for us a different kick. In this case you do not bend the leg like in Mai Geri but instead bring the leg up above your target without bending the knee at all and drop your heel down to strike using the weight of your leg, body and hips. There is no thrust or snap in this kick like there is in Mai Geri.

Does everyone else use this terminology and execution as well?

[supergroup7]

Osu Deaken.. what you say sounds similar to what I am familiar with

However.. I have done this kick as a variation:

Chudan (Midsection)/ or Jodan ( upper) Mae (front) Kakato ( heel) Geri (kick) - where the action is similar to "forward or thrust kick" using the heel.

Also, How about:

Mae Kansetsu Geri - forward joint kick to the knee using sakuto (knife edge of foot) Would this kick also be considered a "front kick"?

[Deaken]

OSU Supergroup,

I have never considered the front kick using the heel of the foot in kumite, but I guess that this is similar to doing tamashiwari with Kakato Geden only to a higher target and in both cases you would strike with the heel but would bend the leg as opposed to keeping it straight. Your explanation and terminology makes sense to me. Now it's something that I will want to try in Kumite and not just for Tamashiwari.

I think that Kensetsu Geri is just Kensetsu Geri (a low side kick using the side thrust of your leg and the outstep Heisoku of the foot) the same way Yoko Geri can be executed to a target next to you or in front of you, but it's still called Yoko (side) Kick based on the body positioning required to execute the kick (pushing your leg from the side as opposed to from the front of your body (and not based on the target direction). Now that I think about it, the naming of the kicks seem to follow body position and mechanics more than the actual taget direction in relation to your body.

What to you think?

[Nix]

Originally Posted by Deaken

What to you think?

I agree. I think a kansetsu geri is kansetsu geri no matter where your opponent is; you would still need to turn your side to him.

We call front kick (gedan/chudan/jodan) mae geri no mattter what leg we use, however some instructors have gotten acustomed to saying "in-step mae geri" for a front kick executed with the front leg. The reason is because you "step in" with the kick in order to gather force. I personally feel it's a horrible term, and try to avoid it.

The axe kick we call mae keage geri. Kakato geri is something completelly different, only used for gedan, a motion maybe best described as stomping with your heel.

[supergroup7]

the same way Yoko Geri can be executed to a target next to you or in front of you, but it's still called Yoko (side) Kick

Yes.. now that you explain it in that way.. It makes sense. Thank you.