sitting seiza !?

[_Simon_]

Do you cross your big toes , right over left ?

when i do that, cramps! BIGTIME! lol

i've actually done meditations in seiza, and the first one i did, i reached alpha state within a few minutes, it was VERY strange, but great of course and the discomfort eventually went away.

yeah, i think ankle rotations could help a little beforehand. get the ligaments all nice and stretchy.

btw, has anyone ever gotten a cramp during seiza? what did they do? haha

[Dent]

Osu! Simon,

Had taken several good Gedan Mawashi to the right leg, and then was the demo-monkey for a pivot to Hiza Geri just before the end of class. Made it into Seiza, but when standing, the muscle said, "Hello!", and I just fell over. Forget trying to look dignified, I just started to laugh as the leg tried to get about three feet shorter.

Ah, memories that I will hear about for decades to come.

Osu!

[smoothsake]

They also sell these seiza chairs to help get used to sitting seiza for long periods of time or for "at home" meditation.

[Bloke]

Smoothsake - any idea where I can get one of those?

[FutureProdigy]

bloke - you can get them from pretty much anywhere... just type in "seiza bench" on google. Most zen centres will have them too.

The Monastery Store Benches

this site has a neat folding one!

If you're good with your hands i can send you diretions on how to make your own as well.

I don't see how these would help sitting seiza though. There meant for elderly people doing meditation that can not sit in proper meditation poses for a long time. You don't feel any pressure on your ankles at all.

[smoothsake]

Bloke-san,

Maybe Vapor can bring one back from Japan for you!

FutureProdigy,

The chair will help teach how to sit up straight and build good posture for seiza, but it won't toughen you up. If you just want to toughen up, why not just sit seiza for a little bit everyday and increase over time - just like anything.

[Bloke]

Thanks Future Prodigy and smoothsake - I was looking from a meditation view point - im well used to Seiza now.

[FutureProdigy]

bloke, i see your from ireland... i dont know if there is a lot of zen centres around you... so, maybe go to a local catholic store and ask them about purchasing a 'taize' prayer bench. Its the exact same thing!

[seienchin]

Can I be a bit radical here and ask...why? Seiza is not an end unto itself, is it? It is a traditional japanese way of sitting, but it is really uncomfortable for many westerners, especailly older ones, who have not grown up sitting on their own feet.

It almost becomes a status thing"I can sit for an hour in Seiza, therefore I am a better karate-ka".

I think it is important not to get obsessed with the externality - sitting in seiza is merely something people can see. I think it is far more important to focus on what is going on inside your head at those times of the class when you are sitting in seiza.

Personally, I'd rather have someone abandon seiza if it is distracting their mind from the focus of meditation. To me, the physical positioning does not matter at all, provided it is helping not hindering the spiritual reflection.

So I just don't see the point in "toughening up" for seiza-sitting. It is not, in my opinion, a goal that is worth pursuing for its own sake.

Now, on the other hand, if someone can explain a bunkai for seiza, then I'll eat my words.

[_Simon_]

bunkai: if someone is charging at you full speed with the intent of hurting you, go immediately into SEIZASTANCE and they will trip! :O


but on a more serious note :P yes, too right, seiza position should not be some goal to attain, it's what's done in seiza that matters, although yes you have to try and be comfortable, unless that is a PART of seiza, to observe the body's reactions/senses/pains from spirit point of view.
but yeah, i guess it's like saying 'what colour should my tennis racket be?' instead of focusing on hittin the ball (go roddick)

[Bloke]

Originally Posted by FutureProdigy

bloke, i see your from ireland... i dont know if there is a lot of zen centres around you... so, maybe go to a local catholic store and ask them about purchasing a 'taize' prayer bench. Its the exact same thing!

Thanks Futureprodigy - Ill check it out.

Originally Posted by seienchin

I think it is important not to get obsessed with the externality - sitting in seiza is merely something people can see. I think it is far more important to focus on what is going on inside your head at those times of the class when you are sitting in seiza.

Good point Seienchin

Originally Posted by _Simon_

i guess it's like saying 'what colour should my tennis racket be?' instead of focusing on hittin the ball (go roddick)

Simon - your tennis racket should be green - it is after all St.Patricks weekend. (When the 1% of the world that claims to be Irish tries to get the other 99% Drunk )