Psychology of training

[tmd]

Originally Posted by spirit

well, I Guess That Got Things A Bit On Track Close To The Idea But Not Quite.

I Got Close!!!

[supergroup7]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!

I could see carryover in Kumite, with the duck syndrome being in effect there too.

Osu!

Osu

Dent? What is the term Duck Syndrome referring to?

Osu

[supergroup7]

Originally Posted by Dent

Osu!

Is it possible that someone would rise to the position of a teacher of Kyokushin/ Ashihara/ Enshin/ other full contact or Knockdown Karate, either as Sensei or Sempai, without displaying those powerful leadership characteristics?

I am going to use Sensei Gary Chamberlain as an example. He and I have never met in person. He is adamant that he will not strike a student to enforce discipline. He uses positive feedback to get the best from his members. He is polite and well spoken. I very much doubt that anyone in his classes has any question of who is in charge though.

Osu!

Osu

Leadership, and power does not necessarily equate with abuse, and domination. Positive supportive leadership can still bring forth a strong aura of authority. I have seen this displayed by the High ranked individuals of Karate that I have met.

[supergroup7]

"Are we pack animals? I don't think so" GJEChamberlain

With great respect to what you had stated so well, I would like to offer that indeed humans are "pack" animals. We need socialization, and to belong to a group or we suffer. One of the most severe punishments known to us is solitary confinement.

"Prisoners who are isolated for prolonged periods of time have been known to experience "depression, despair, anxiety, rage, claustrophobia, hallucinations, problems with impulse control, and/or an impaired ability to think, concentrate, or remember." (2) Studies have also shown that isolation can cause "impaired vision and hearing... tinnitus [(ringing in the ears)], weakening of the immune system, amenorrhea [(absence of menstrual periods in women)], premature menopause... and aggressive behavior in prisoners, volunteers and animals."" Taken from here

Usually when faced with isolation, a person will start creating companions to survive. One great example of this type of behavior was Wilson, the volleyball, from the movie "Castaway".

I would like to suggest that surely humankind has evolved beyond reacting only in an animalistic way, but that we shouldn't discard the idea that within our brains still lies the primitive side which looks for a pack to belong to, can recognize the leader of the pack, and will work towards recognition, and acceptance from the leader.

[GJEChamberlain]

Osu! supergroup7

Good points -

I can see certain aspects of pack behaviour.

This has a downside as well of course, in that to retain the respect of the masses the top dog has no choice but to make life pretty unpleasant for anyone who doesn't buckle down and accept his ultimate authority. This may lead to punishment, exclusion and even banishment and by gad we've seen enough of that in the Martial Arts!

There is the notion of co-operative groups though that get most of the benefits of the pack without having to roll on your back if the leader comes close or having to sniff unpleasant places ....

That's my prefered system, a group of like minded individuals working hard and sweating together for mutual advancement, not just to dance to my tune.

I think we've evolved now, to the point that questioning and seeking knowledge outside our own pack is accepted. Many instructors have moved right away from the pack leader approach. Why? Years ago, we could have almost guaranteed that the instructor at any given dojo was also probably the toughest and best at everything. If they're still teaching now though, 40 years on, they cannot still nip (or batter) anyone who fails to show deference, so respect has to be earned in different ways.

Some have it, some not. In my Fire Service experience, the Officers who expected you to leap up and salute never really enjoyed the respect of those who kept calm in a crisis. Maybe that's the ingredient we humans follow most willingly, Hemingway's "grace under pressure", not pack dominance rituals.

Gary

[supergroup7]

"without having to roll on your back if the leader comes close or having to sniff unpleasant places ...."

Ha ha ha! What an image!!! Ha ha ha...

I agree that your description of a goal oriented group of equally respected individuals is what would work best when looking at group dynamics. It's true that we have seen far too much punishment, exclusion, and banishment within not only Martial Arts but in other societal organizations.

Even in this situation, however, I see the need for a leader to guide, and provide a focus for the activity. In my opinion, a group effort does not go far when each person tries to dictate the direction of the group. Going back to the sled dog metaphor, imagine if each dog decided to strike out on it's own direction. I doubt that the sled would do more than crash over on it's side. There needs to be a Musher to guide the dogs into a combined effort.

Not every person has matured into a place where they value the authority of calmness, respect, and "grace under pressure" ( I am thinking about some of examples that I've met during public schooling.) There are some people who see this as weakness, and the only language that they understand is domination, power, and pain. Would I want the responsibility of attempting to teach Karate to such a person? I cringe at the thought, but then, would not these people benefit the most from learning the philosophy of Karate?

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by supergroup7

Osu

Dent? What is the term Duck Syndrome referring to?

Osu

Look at Ducks, Supergroup7. When they are in the water, they might be moving rapidly, but they appear unruffled and unhurried. If we could see below the surface, we'd see those little webbed feet steaming along at 100mph!

When in a confrontation, an appearance of confidence and capability are essential, and even if our hearts are racing along like those duck feet, we have to be calm and contained on the surface.

Osu!

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by supergroup7

Leadership, and power does not necessarily equate with abuse, and domination. Positive supportive leadership can still bring forth a strong aura of authority. I have seen this displayed by the High ranked individuals of Karate that I have met.

No, not at all. That's why I used some of the Sensei on this board as examples. Soft and hard in one.

Osu!

[tmd]

leadership is an interesting trait - I used to think that the best leaders always lead by example and that you would always get a better response from your students as one who had been their done that but an example that flies in the face of this is the English Premier league (Football). This is sport played at the very highest levels and yet the some of the most successful managers of recent times have either hardly or never played at so much as a moderate level compared to thier players. They are all well trained man-managers and use the kind of techs spoken of in this and other threads by Gary. I think a good Sensei would seek out this kind of training to enable him to get the best out of his students.

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by tmd

I think a good Sensei would seek out this kind of training to enable him to get the best out of his students.

Yes, TMD, I think that times have changed, and while Karate is not a sport in and of itself, there is a lot to be learned from those in the field of sporting excellence.

Taking coaching courses, health and fitness diplomas, first aid, leadership training etc, will make us more capable and well rounded individuals. Not everything will be directly applicable to Karate, but it may have an impact on other parts of our life.

Osu!