Psychology of training

[Spirit]

I propose at theory that is open for debate, But I ask that before one jumps in and gives their point or counter point one really think about this theory first.

Psychology of Karate is more important than any other part of the whole?!?


Lets use this as an example…
Knowing how to punch yet unable to use that knowledge to make the punch effective against someone or thing else.
You know how all aspects of the punch works, you done the punch tens of thousands of times, yet it still does not quite work. Years have gone by and Sensei’s, books, and other training have yet to help you climb over the last hill to improve the punch.
Is it training issue or is it a psychological block

How does “the science of the mind and behavior” come into play or better, how does it work to improve technique where physical training will not?

[GJEChamberlain]

Osu!

The great paradox of martial arts is that learning respect and "knowing one's place" can drastically reduce effectiveness. Constantly working at high but non-ferocious intensity and considering and respecting training partners can be as limiting as driving with the handbrake on.

Also, students taught simply to move (or not move except) on command often need "permission" to hit hard - certainly in a live encounter. It can take a while (or a few bad experiences) before you grant yourself permission to hurt someone for real.

Learning the skills can be fairly straightforward. Learning to apply them requires drills that allow maximum aggression and intensity - impossible on opponents in the dojo, so pad or bag drills are a tolerable substitute. Don't kid yourself that sparring is real fighting, as part of you will always be considering the opponent, part the rules, part your Sensei's approval etc (If you didn't you'd most likely be kicked out very soon) In real fighting the opponent needs reducing as quickly as possible to a non-threatening state, requiring a predatory mindset. (This is deja-vu, I've put this before)

As an instructor, decide also whether always keeping people calm is truely useful. In my experience hot ferocity is almost always more successful than cool skills alone, despite what you may read in the martial arts legends! We were all brought up on stories of wise old masters calmly dealing with fierce bandits etc etc, but lets face facts; very few will ever reach that level of ability - if it even exists this side of neverland. For the mortal amongst us, having a blend of both skill and ferocity is far better.

Most important? Having a switch we flick internally under certain critical conditions where fighting becomes nothing less than all out assault carried through until the bitter end.

Gary

[Spirit]

Gary nice peice of info!!!
But not sure if it touches on the question
Taking the fact that all that you stated is being done yet the end results is still the same as stated in the example are we looking at physical [ability] failure or mental block and is one more important than the other.

[jcc]

Osu! Spirit,

I would say it´s got to be psychological. People are capable of doing amazing feats when put into extreme situations and react sub-consciously - the power of the mind. Most people don´t get to use more than a small percentage (10%?) of their capability.

Given 2 fighters of equal strength, the one with the stronger mental attitude would normally prevail. Or, another example that has most probably happened to a lot of us, when doing a break, if your minds not there you most probably will just bounce off!

Osu!

[SHIDOKANATLANTA]

it would be in the mind. look at world class olympic level atheletes for example. they all are capable of winning the gold. all being eqaul the gold medalist is the one who is stronger mentally, not physically (as they are many times equal).

[GJEChamberlain]

Osu!

Q: Psychology of Karate is more important than any other part of the whole?!?

A: Definately - once the physical skills are in place.

Filling someones head with psychobable just confuses the issue until they are 95% there, achieved up to that point by focused repetition and sweat. Then it becomes more and more important as the release mechanism allowing free movement and application of said skills.

Gary

[Nix]

Originally Posted by jcc

I would say it´s got to be psychological. People are capable of doing amazing feats when put into extreme situations and react sub-consciously - the power of the mind. Most people don´t get to use more than a small percentage (10%?) of their capability.

I would like to dispute this. It is true that few people manage to use their full capability, as we only use a small portion of our brain (I think it's 7%). But this does not mean that we are only performing 1/14 of our potential, as there are physical and other psychological limitations - I will never be able to run 14 times faster than I am today, or kick 14 times harder.

Originally Posted by SHIDOKANATLANTA

it would be in the mind. look at world class olympic level atheletes for example. they all are capable of winning the gold. all being eqaul the gold medalist is the one who is stronger mentally, not physically (as they are many times equal).

It's all relative, I think. Noone is completelly equal, (and I'm not sure every athlete is "capable" of winning a gold medal). Still, it's important to have a strong psyché whether you are an olympic athlete or not.

[Dent]

Osu!

Taking Spirit's request into account, and wandering around with this question and talking it through, I'm not sure I can give an answer based on the question as it stands.

Simply put, all parts of the equation are important. Lose one link in the mind/body/spirit connection, and neither of the others are strong enough to keep going. We are a unit, and either we strive to strengthen each part of that triangle, or we will never see the success that we are capable of.

Rep for the question though.

Osu!

[tmd]

I would say it would be psychological weakness as this can not only effect the result of the actual event but also of not pushing yourself in the training for the body to achieve it's maximum potential in the first place. The greatest weakness can be an ability to talk yourself out of doing that last push up, pushing for the line or going red mist at the 30 second buzzer, overcoming this weakness will make you a better athlete; the mind controls the body never the other way around.

[James]

Originally Posted by Nix

I would like to dispute this. It is true that few people manage to use their full capability, as we only use a small portion of our brain (I think it's 7%). But this does not mean that we are only performing 1/14 of our potential, as there are physical and other psychological limitations - I will never be able to run 14 times faster than I am today, or kick 14 times harder.

This is a popular idea, the whole only using 10% of the brain or whatever. Unfourtunately, its just not true. We use our entire brain.
EG. one part of the brain is responsible for visual processing of various kinds, these systems are working together with other systems(auditory) the information gathered from here is further proccesed by checking the stimulus against your memory(regognition) which will then help you decied whether you need to act in response your environment, so your motorcortex will then be given instructions etc etc. other parts of the brain are repsonsble for many things such as balance, rythem...hunger....
There is space and potential for you to make new neural connections, which takes place during learning and development...but its nowhere close to 90%..

Originally Posted by GJEChamberlain

Osu!

Q: Psychology of Karate is more important than any other part of the whole?!?

A: Definately - once the physical skills are in place.

Filling someones head with psychobable just confuses the issue until they are 95% there, achieved up to that point by focused repetition and sweat. Then it becomes more and more important as the release mechanism allowing free movement and application of said skills.

Gary

I agree with this...once you have mastered the skills, you only need to let yourself go with your instinct.

However i think that this relates to real incounters and in competion is a different kettle of fish.

not much time to get into this debate im about to go on hoilday...really interesting topic though.
James

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by James

This is a popular idea, the whole only using 10% of the brain or whatever. Unfourtunately, its just not true. We use our entire brain.
EG. one part of the brain is responsible for visual processing of various kinds, these systems are working together with other systems(auditory) the information gathered from here is further proccesed by checking the stimulus against your memory(regognition) which will then help you decied whether you need to act in response your environment, so your motorcortex will then be given instructions etc etc. other parts of the brain are repsonsble for many things such as balance, rythem...hunger....
There is space and potential for you to make new neural connections, which takes place during learning and development...but its nowhere close to 90%..



I agree with this...once you have mastered the skills, you only need to let yourself go with your instinct.

However i think that this relates to real incounters and in competion is a different kettle of fish.

not much time to get into this debate im about to go on hoilday...really interesting topic though.
James

With what you've brought to the discussion thus far, James, I don't think you should rush off just yet. Either stay and tell all, or take us with you!

Osu!

[homer_simpson]

I do think that psychological issue has a significant influence to the outcome of a sparring/tournament session.

I train nearly everyday. Whenever I stop training for a while, I feel somewhat 'weak' and 'inferior' although I know well in my mind that taking a break for a few days will not have any adverse physical effect. My experience of doing kumite when feeling 'inferior' usually result in a standoff (even against less-experienced opponents).

It is a different story when a kumite session takes place right after a period of intensive training. I feel 'strong' and 'aggressive', so much so that the fight seems 'easy'.

[jcc]

Originally Posted by Nix

I would like to dispute this. It is true that few people manage to use their full capability, as we only use a small portion of our brain (I think it's 7%). But this does not mean that we are only performing 1/14 of our potential, as there are physical and other psychological limitations - I will never be able to run 14 times faster than I am today, or kick 14 times harder.

Osu! Nix,

Well, if you already think that, then of course you won´t

I think the relation between the amount of brain (links?) you use and your potential may not be that linear (or log!) but is important as is a positive mental attitude. I remember an interview on the radio once with one top sports psychologist who used something close to hypnosis on his athletes in order to get them to imagine themselves running their race, or whatever and winning. Very interesting and seemed to work.

[Spirit]

A lot of good and a few well...

Though I'm not totally sure that what I see and feel psychology is the same as what you all think it is.

I'm not talking about how much you use [% of brain] nor stories of this and that or how well you can spar after a good workout... it is the understanding of and the use of the psychological aspects of the mind and how it effects your ability to do or to reach etc.

[intwominds]

If you know a technique, practiced it thousands of times and yet still can't execute it effectively against an opponent, then obviously psychological aspects play a part in why its not working for you. However, there is no substitute for experience, and increased kumite experience in most cases would alleviate the problem. For example, I still have an issue in performing a good strong head kick in kumite, I can do them so they whisk by by a hairs width and enjoy the startled look on the opponents face but can't actually contact yet. With more experience I think this will improve as have my other previous issues I have had in the past. So is psychological aspects more important, I would say no, but they certainly play a role in this situation.

On a further note, psychological aspects can play a huge role such as when self-talk is messing with your mind. If you look at someone and say "Holy Crab, I will never be able to beat this guy" as opposed to saying to self "I can do this, keep cool, I can win this", well the outcome could be very different. You know the old saying, If you think you're beaten then you are.

[supergroup7]

Psychology: inner thoughts, and attitudes have a great role in affecting how well a person can train, but it is in my opinion that strength of willpower (spirit) will be the deciding factor in a self defense confrontation. I have read more than one account where someone with no Martial Arts background was capable of defending themselves only on their intense desire to survive the moment. I have personally seen moments in my life where it was my inner conviction reflected in my face, voice, and eyes that convinced an attacker to back away, and chose a different target. Conviction (willpower) seemed to be a more effective weapon than calmness, anger, or fear.

I am willing to be corrected on this viewpoint as I have only had a few experiences of facing attack (in reality).

[Dent]

Osu!

Originally Posted by supergroup7

Psychology: inner thoughts, and attitudes have a great role in affecting how well a person can train, but it is in my opinion that strength of willpower (spirit) will be the deciding factor in a self defense confrontation. I have read more than one account where someone with no Martial Arts background was capable of defending themselves only on their intense desire to survive the moment. I have personally seen moments in my life where it was my inner conviction reflected in my face, voice, and eyes that convinced an attacker to back away, and chose a different target. Conviction (willpower) seemed to be a more effective weapon than calmness, anger, or fear.

I am willing to be corrected on this viewpoint as I have only had a few experiences of facing attack (in reality).

Spirit of conviction. A fine statement, and very good for the situations you describe, Supergroup7.

Yes, I like that a lot. (I wanted to give you some rep, but apparently it's too soon since the last rep giving. )

Osu!

[vapor]

Not to worry Dent---I had some rep to spare, so sg7 has been blessed with some positive rep!

vapor