Weight training advice....

[zAcH]

Hello guys, I was wondering if you could give me some advice. I am going to start weight training every other day. I have read that more reps and less weight helps develop muscular endurance, while less reps and more weight develops muscular strength. Do you think it would be best if I focused on both muscular endurance and muscular strength training all in one training session, or should I focus on endurance one day and strength on another day?

[ksan]

Both are good.. To be quite honest you need to work on it in scheduals of weeks also looking at what kind of activity you need to work towards... kata tournament needs a different aproach then kumite tournament... so does a grading... We have people here that are combining programs over a period of several weeks (say 15 or 20 weeks) and in that period they look at nutrion, your rest, the dojo work you do, running and weights. For instance you mentionend power (short reps high weight) versus light weight maximum reps (endurance)... But when you go in the middle you do a bit of both and you train more on a volume/power-capacity (difficult to find the right words in english). Also look at the systems your training.. say the first 15 seconds of very high intensity work outs (sprinting, pumping very fast on a high number of repetion of punches ) is your creatine system, after that you go into your lactic accid system (when you feel you can still go but its starting to get more difficult to keep up your speed and intesity and you start to go get tired) All these systems have different approaches in how to work on them...

Like you see its very open, and just going to the gym is good, but you need to think about where you wanna go. Every "good" gym will have people there who know about this and just ask them (your paying for that) They`ll prolly need a lot of info on what you need to do and how it works but then they will get you a program.. with loads of adjusting when ur doing it...

Write it all down so u can help other dojo members in the future...

Osu

Ksan

[Suhaib]

Osu

I have also recently started weight training. I do 3 days per week and try to go for as well-rounded a work out as possible each time. From my point of view the muscle strength vs endurance question is a little over played. Clearly you don't want to lift so much that it will slow you down and on the other hand you don't want to sacrifice strength. I recommend finding a middle ground that suits you. Also, think about the speed of each rep, keeping in mind the "explosivity" you need to throw good kicks and punches. Also, don't forget to train your lower back. This is very important for core strength and often overlooked.

As Ksan said, best to approach the staff at your gym, tell them what you're trying to achieve and ask what advice they have.

Best of luck in your endeavours. Train hard. Osu!

[krishanu]

Osu

though weight training can be used to increase both power as well as muscular endurance, you should be careful that your speed and flexibility do not decrease. normal gymming (bodybuilding) is intended to increase muscle mass (not increase strength) and accentuate the muscle fibres. what i would recommend is you look for a specialist strength training or weightlifting routine.

krishanu

[SHIHAN MERCADO]

weight training is a very good cross training method. I weight train 2 to 3 days a week and it is in addition to all of my regular karate training.

[BigAl]

First off, good idea to start weight training. It's an excellent supplement to martial arts training that can not only improve your strength and explosiveness but also flexibility and a better ability to absorb blows (if you train properly, you can increase your muscular density which can sort of act as "armor" for your kumite).

The key thing to keep in mind is, as a martial artist, you use your body as an entire unit. Therefore, the best way to train is by using the exercises that work the most muscles as once (called compound exercises). Since as karateka we will be getting plenty of muscular endurance work through our kihon, kata, and kumite, the best approach IMO for weight training is to focus on strength. For that, a rep scheme of 5 sets of 5 reps (known as 5x5) is probably one of the best to start with.

The first two sets are warm-up sets, where you use a light weight on the first and a progressively heavier weight on the second. For the last three sets, you use the most weight you can safely and correctly handle for 3 sets of 5 reps. Once you can get all 15 reps out of that 3x5, you add 5-10 pounds next time. If you can get at least 12 but not 15, stick with that weight for the next workout. If you get under 12, lower the weight 5-10 pounds the next time.

And yes, before I did mention flexibility. The best way to make sure you are actually helping your flexibility rather than hindering it is to make sure you use the full range of motion for each exercise. Unless you build yourself up to enormous proportions like those of pro bodybuilders, I would not worry too much about any extra size or weight training slowing you down too significantly. If anything, the weight training will make you more explosive.

[brianc692]

I think it is important to suppliment your normal karate training with weight training twice per week. Normal dojo excercises such as push ups, squats and sit ups build muscular endurance but do not increase strength once you reach a certain amount. It also important to focus on the specific muscles used in karate. I focus on Chest, Shoulder and Tricep as they are the main muscles used in punching. For the legs I do squats with lighter weights and high reps and also leg extensions. It is important to not train too heavy on the legs and sacrifice flexability and speed in the kicks.

OSU

[izya82]

I think it's good enoupgh to have 3 regular training(kihon, kata....etc), 2heavy training, 1 long crossrunning per week

[Aizaku]

A good thingto do is measure your pulse right after exercise, count ur pulse for 15 seconds then times by 4, a healthy rate is around 70 although it can be from 70-100 for teenagers
After (hard) exercise your "maxium heart rate" which is as hard as your hard can work ..so its like lifting the heaveist weight for your heart. well anyway the heart rate should be somthing like 220 minus your age so mine should be around 200-205 (i'm 17)
(you didn't really need this long explaination but I thought I might aswell put it in :P)
Anyway now that you know your maximum heart rate you can start using it to exercise.

To warm up you idealy want to use around 50-60% of your max heart rate

...when fat burining (e.g light weights, jogging, not too hard swimming) 60-70%

....when edurance training (e.g. med heavy weights, running hard swimming, swimming) 70-80%

....when performance trainign (e.g. heavy weight springting, constant shadow boxing or very very hard swimming if you can do it)
80-90%

and when red line trainign (e.g. lots of jump squats real fast or lifting a weight you can't lift) 90-100% you need a very high level of fitness to do these sort of things.

as you move alot when in free style postion you will want to do lots of 60-80% exercise for basic stamina
And on top of that you will want to do lots and lots of 80-90% so you can handle all those blocks and attacks without tirring yourself out. The best thing to do it beat a punch bag up and don't stop attacking until you pass out :P

You don't really need to do much weight training for martial arts as you mainlu need basic stamina and higher endurance stamina, strength isn't as nesercary, so squats, pressups, situps ect are fine although I still do weights because muscel definition looks cool xD
But for strength traing you have to be careful, onyl exercise each muscel once ever three days ..so one day work out each muscel on the arm, next day abs, next day leg muscels and then go back to the arms again otherwise you could damage your muscels, don't worry they wont go down that quickly.

One last thing, I noticed that alot of people here seem to do as many pressups as they can do in one go, that could damage the muscel too, the way some people do it is by doing 20-30 then resting until the lactic acid has gone and then doing it again for up to 3-5 times, and this is done for every other muscel whether using weights or the body.
Sorry if that sounds like critacism (I don't mean it too! ^^), it is possible to damage muscel tissue that way.

[Kohai Svaasand]

Hello dear zAcH!

I wouldt advice you to take it easy at the start, because many people experience problems when starting weight training. When speaking of problems I mean things like:

Doing the exercise wrong
motivation
pain etc

Ask people for help, train with others and dont forgett to warm upp.
When you in the game after some weeks you can pick upp the pace and
"Be come Some BODY"

I believe in 2 week hard training with heavy weights, then 2 weeks with lighter weights with more reps. This works for me and many others doing karate.

Good luck!

[al-sadqy]

hello..

how are you?..

it's good for us..

i think you should do them together..

on the other hand you must mix with exercises which you took it in your club...

for example: i do 20 push up when i carry 60 kilo...ect

OSU...

[toma]

You have to change your routine. If you want to gain muscle and strengh, you must put your body in crisis. If you do always the same exercises, your body will adjust to them and you will not gain as much strengh and muscle as if you change your exercises. 4 weeks routine is a good way to train.

[BigAl]

Originally Posted by toma

You have to change your routine. If you want to gain muscle and strengh, you must put your body in crisis. If you do always the same exercises, your body will adjust to them and you will not gain as much strengh and muscle as if you change your exercises. 4 weeks routine is a good way to train.

Actually, you'll start making the most gains around Week 5-8 before it starts going down by Week 12. 6-8 weeks is usually the best to mix things up.

[szalmalang]

"Weight training slowing you down" - provided you do the excercises correctly and have a reasonable training plan, I think it's just another myth.
Before starting Kyokushin I did tae-bo, fitness boxing and the like a couple of years every day, then I decided to combine it with regular weight training (3 excercises, 5 sets each with 6-8 reps pro muscle group). That increased my muscle mass by 10-15% and I actually got faster and as BigAl pointed out 'more explosive', also my boxing workouts became more effective and exhausting, me being able to put more power into them.
Another method I would mention is functional weight training, I did a lot of usual shadow boxing with dumbbells up to 5 lbs - it can be really improving when you are trying to catch up with your usual speed and rhythm (without weights)
Something similar I've found recently in Sosai's book Essential Karate: iron sandals. I wonder any of you practice this kind of training?
Osu.

[BigAl]

In one of Arthur Saxon's books (an old-time strongman, written back in the early 1910's), at that time he mentioned there was people who even then thought weight training would make them slow. It's a very old and unfortunately very common myth. Thanks for the input szalmalang (I happen to be Hungarian myself actually, Istvan Sandor is my first and middle name )

[szalmalang]

OFF:
Ly, look, how small the world is My name is Gabriella Eva
ON:
'No smoke without fire', I guess, as in most myths, there are some crumbs of truth in this too. If one does _only_ weight training and goes crazy about getting as big as possible as fast as possible, overtraining and juicing like hell and all that, it surely can make one slow and even off balance (I know one of this kind from my gym, poor chap, the way he moves you always get the feeling he is on the verge of tipping over...), but that is, I think, more a consequence of exaggerated muscle mass growth the body (especially the nervous system, but also sinews, etc.) cannot adjust itself to in such a short time, of the exhaustion coming from overtraining, all this eventually worsened by neglecting stretching and condition/endurance excercise - poor weights cannot be blamed for the nonsense some use them with

[goldberg2310]

hi,

in my opinion it´s an individual thing how to train. ;-)
take the advice from above and ask the gym-instructors for training.

first time it would be same training as for all others. the whole body has to get into a habit on the weights.

since the past years i practised weight training with different plans. now i can say, for me, it´s the best to train with 70% of the maximum weight, reps of 10-12. this is called "training for muscles" (don´t know the englsih word...).

change the exercises four to six times a year. training 2-3 times a week.

for myself, i train the whole body, but the smaller muscels (tri-, bizeps) with a maximum of 4 sets added to one big group.

proof yourself and have fun...but!!! don´t forget dojo-training.

hope this will help a little.

OSU!

[L.K]

Finding a program that suits you is very much a question of "trial and error". My advice for you is to try different programs to find out which gives you the best result. It is hard for anybody who doesn't know you to say weather you should focus on strenght endurance or whatever - it depends on what you need to improve and the best people to answer that question is you and you sensei. Just remember that bodybuilding and karate is not the same. Try to find excercises that stimulates the same muscles as karatekas use. Complex movements are better than isolated excersises. There's a lot of information about "functional" strenght training on the net so have a look around.
Good luck!

[nangoushuujin]

There is such good advice here.
The only thing I would add is find an Olympic Weightlifter (those guys who Snatch, Clean and Jerk), have a chat to him see if they are kind enough to show you how to deadlift, squat, overhead squat and if possible snatch and or clean and jerk because these exercises will make you stronger and faster.

Osu

[boldbhoy]

Hi, there is an excellent book "Weight training for the martial artist" by Geoff Thompson. It,s not a huge book with long or complex routines. It's quite simple, written in everyday language. Definitely worth a look.
One of the things he advises that I've never heard elsewhere is it can be beneficial to have a LITTLE body fat. He reckons that you can withstand blows a bit better. Obviously you have to be a bit careful here as too much fat is guarunteed to slow you down! Good luck.