Punching With Weights - Page 2

mary222 · 06-29-2008, 05:30 PM

my two cents
first i agree with some of you saying that you are not working the right muscle when striking with weigths. in fact i wouldnt suggest using weigth for dynamic trainning instrad you should always try to be ''practical'' in you trainning making sure that everything you do apply to your sport. and yes the rubber bands works great because you can choose the way of the resistance. it is also really good cause it works the antagonist muscle. for punching it is also great to throw and catch a medecine ball.

GJEChamberlain · 06-29-2008, 05:57 PM

Osu!

One way I find useful is to train complex's i.e. work a major exercise first - maybe single arm pressups, and follow this immediately with throwing a medicine ball at a wall at maximum speed. Seems to fire everything up without the penalties of either having to slow the arm or risking ligament damage.

Gary

grasshopper1486 · 06-29-2008, 07:16 PM

[quote= In fact, it's pretty much an isometric exercise for the grip, biceps and core. The dynamic work is done by the hips and legs, pivoting and launching the weight/punch.[/QUOTE]

So are you saying, that punching with weights also helps the hips and legs ?????

Dent · 06-29-2008, 08:32 PM

osu! JCC,

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcc

Osu!

I´ve never used these things - anybody know how long they´ve actually been around? I ask because back in the ´70s we used to use old bicycle inner tubes in a similar way! Obviously someone has had one of those bright idea somewhere along the way.

So, can anyone tell me how they would compare, to say, an inner tube?

Yes, an idea from which they made bank, no doubt!

Inner tubes are far tougher than most of the bands. The stretch is more gradual, so it's easier to vary the tension in the exercise.

Osu!

**SHIDOKANATLANTA** · 06-30-2008, 01:46 AM

i am a personal trainer by profession. i've been a pro boxer and kickboxer (20 years). i will say it again. punching with dumbells will not develop punching power.

meguro · 06-30-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grasshopper1486

So are you saying, that punching with weights also helps the hips and legs ?????

NO! Coordinated and strong hip and leg action will make for a powerful punch. The exercise I was describing, a bastradized cheat curl, is nothing like training oi/gyaku tsuki with weights or resistance bands.

Nitekon · 07-04-2008, 11:09 AM

I definately believe it can work, but for the way we use our body, you need to make the exercise and strnght benefits functional. Use the weights(not too heavy) Do a few sets then get on the bag and hit it hard, this makes the movement functional. I've seen professional football (soccer) players do it a similar thing. They would do bench press then go outside and push throw a medecing ball. Their strength coach said it makes the exercise functional and usefull for the their performance. The aim for punching and kicking is targeting the fast twitch fibres of the body go gain seed and power.

mary222 · 07-04-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitekon

I definately believe it can work, but for the way we use our body, you need to make the exercise and strnght benefits functional. Use the weights(not too heavy) Do a few sets then get on the bag and hit it hard, this makes the movement functional. I've seen professional football (soccer) players do it a similar thing. They would do bench press then go outside and push throw a medecing ball. Their strength coach said it makes the exercise functional and usefull for the their performance. The aim for punching and kicking is targeting the fast twitch fibres of the body go gain seed and power.

in your exemple the bench press would be far more fonctional then punching with the db while standing because you are at least pushing through the right path. meanning when you do a normal tsuki you are pushing forward... when punching with db you are still going forward BUT your strenght is use to keep the weight from going down. you are not using your muscle the same way so it wont have any effect on you punching. i'm not a professionnal trainning onlike other here... but i wouold guess that doing the same punching w db might help a little if you are laying on your back when you do it but i woundn't us it as primary strengning cause it is stopping you from using the full pushing muscle (leg/hips/back/shoulder/arm).

Nitekon · 07-05-2008, 09:15 AM

ah thtas ba good point about having to keep the dumb bells from droping down. Its a slightly different way to what i was thinking, and a very good point.

**DKKC** · 07-13-2008, 03:50 PM

I like punching the bag with wrist weights. This way I can make a proper fist and, by hitting a hanging bag I don't have to worry about stoping the punch, contolling or overextending etc. I like it a lot - very hard work but fun. My arms get tired quickly and I have to use my body a lot more. I also need to ensure I position myself correctly behind the punch or the strike is weak. I found that it did help with my movement and positioning behind the strike and, indirectly, increased the power in my punching. I haven't noticed any negatives!

grasshopper1486 · 07-14-2008, 04:16 AM

Osu !!!! ...dkkc !!!

doogfood · 07-18-2008, 10:43 PM

I'm glad to see some people using terms like "functional", which basically can be interpreted as specific to task/activity.

When you think about punching with weights, think about the force vector of your punch and of the weight you are holding. The weight has a force vector going down due to gravitational pull, and also when punching there is a force vector against the direction of the punch due to air resistance but this is minimal and it is not much resistance. In order to keep your arm up and with weights, firstly your anterior deltoids work to keep your upper arm up, biceps (there are more than the biceps to be specific but just for the ease) to keep the forearm and hand up (depends on how much you bend your arm but relatively speaking that is), and various forearm and wrist muscles to grip and keep the wrist stable, and all these muscles are working isometrically since you are not moving. When you punch, the anterior deltoids continue to contract and lift the upper arm, triceps work to extend the elbow, biceps will eccentrically contract (muscle is working but is lengthening) to control the motion of the elbow extending. As I mentioned earlier, weights have a downward force vector and some horizontal when punching, and the muscles that are really being trained are the anterior deltoids and biceps. The anterior deltoid is used in a punching motion but training this through punching with weights is not specific to the task you are training for, so it isn't efficient in training to increase your punching force.

On the otherhand, using a resistance band, whether it's a cable machine, tube, theraband, etc., would create resistance opposing the motion of a punch. Therefore, this would probably be a better option to train for punching.

Also like others have said, you can also train muscles that are used for punching through resistance training, and also practicing punching, which is specific to what you are training for. This way you can train your muscles for bigger force output, and also train them for a specifically so that they will function smoothly in a coordinated manner when punching.

Sorry for writing a lot but this kind of thing is part of my field and I just wanted to give you guys some input.

Dent · 07-18-2008, 10:47 PM

Osu!

Quote:

Originally Posted by doogfood

I'm glad to see some people using terms like "functional", which basically can be interpreted as specific to task/activity.

When you think about punching with weights, think about the force vector of your punch and of the weight you are holding. The weight has a force vector going down due to gravitational pull, and also when punching there is a force vector against the direction of the punch due to air resistance but this is minimal and it is not much resistance. In order to keep your arm up and with weights, firstly your anterior deltoids work to keep your upper arm up, biceps (there are more than the biceps to be specific but just for the ease) to keep the forearm and hand up (depends on how much you bend your arm but relatively speaking that is), and various forearm and wrist muscles to grip and keep the wrist stable, and all these muscles are working isometrically since you are not moving. When you punch, the anterior deltoids continue to contract and lift the upper arm, triceps work to extend the elbow, biceps will eccentrically contract (muscle is working but is lengthening) to control the motion of the elbow extending. As I mentioned earlier, weights have a downward force vector and some horizontal when punching, and the muscles that are really being trained are the anterior deltoids and biceps. The anterior deltoid is used in a punching motion but training this through punching with weights is not specific to the task you are training for, so it isn't efficient in training to increase your punching force.

On the otherhand, using a resistance band, whether it's a cable machine, tube, theraband, etc., would create resistance opposing the motion of a punch. Therefore, this would probably be a better option to train for punching.

Also like others have said, you can also train muscles that are used for punching through resistance training, and also practicing punching, which is specific to what you are training for. This way you can train your muscles for bigger force output, and also train them for a specifically so that they will function smoothly in a coordinated manner when punching.

Sorry for writing a lot but this kind of thing is part of my field and I just wanted to give you guys some input.

Thank you for writing this post, DoogFood. A very clear explanation of why and how.

Osu!

grasshopper1486 · 07-19-2008, 04:29 PM

Thanks for that post man !!!

kyofighter · 07-19-2008, 11:16 PM

I'm still not conviced that it is not working - it is an ancient training method for ,I would say houndreds of years.
Go and explain it to the masters from okinawa and china, it must be a good reason why it is still in practice.
I guess I'm just more conservator, I still train at the makiwara also, even when others say it is not good for your joints, and I do full stomach crunches when they say it is not good for your back, and full squats also. Not always the easyest way is the better one !
It works for me, after 20 years , my back , my knees and the rest of my body is still healthy and strong - so...if it's working than don't fix it !
... but that's just me....

grasshopper1486 · 07-20-2008, 11:38 PM

Kyofighter :: I agree with you totally !!!! Every other person says that punching with weights is a waste of time and it dosen't help, but.........every post that i read that logically explains why it dosen't work makes a lot of "logical" sense, but my instincts inform me otherwise....somewhere in the back of my mind, it's (my mind) is telling me that they are missing something and it is beneficial to pnching power !!!
As you said, if it dosen't work why do/did some of these masters use those techniques and swear by them......cause my shihan swears by it and he definetly aint no bogus instructor. he knows what he's doing and i trusted him implicitly>......And we had some pretty devastating fighters who used those same weights to punch and train with......and ; they were monsters !!!

Dent · 07-21-2008, 02:35 AM

Osu!

It is possible that there will be some benefit, but will that me the maximal benefit that could be attained in the same time frame?

Yes, they used to use weights in that way, in the past. They also used to get around solely on foot, then horse, then cart, Model T Ford, MG GBT, etc all the way to the space shuttle.

We learn, adapt and grow. That's how we broke the 10 second barrier for the 100 meters, the 4 minute mile, and how grannies are now completing the Ironman in Hawaii.

Sometimes, there is a better way.

Osu!

**hasbeen** · 07-21-2008, 07:45 PM

i can only tell you what i did and the results.

i trained at home with punching combinations using dumb bells every day of the week...off my own back.

this lasted for no more than three or four minutes but i went through the combinations as fast as i possibly could and this included the jabs--one set of ten on both hands.

i honestly believe it improved my power and speed....this worked for me but everybody is different.

i believe after you get to a certain level of competance your training should be tailor made to suit you because of size/weight etc. and how you want to take your karate forward....some people are not good fighters but are excellent at kata.......should they work on their fighting if they are happy with what they are doing? the guy that made me think of this was a 3rd dan and represented g.b all styles at kata. but in my opinion wasn`t very strong at fighting.

Dent · 07-21-2008, 07:49 PM

Osu!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hasbeen

i believe after you get to a certain level of competance your training should be tailor made to suit you because of size/weight etc. and how you want to take your karate forward....some people are not good fighters but are excellent at kata.......should they work on their fighting if they are happy with what they are doing? the guy that made me think of this was a 3rd dan and represented g.b all styles at kata. but in my opinion wasn`t very strong at fighting.

Would you consider this as a subject for another thread, H? I think it's worth pursuing separately.

Osu!

Kareyn · 07-21-2008, 10:54 PM

As a personal trainer, uhhehmm, I suggest weighted training irregularly for overall fitness. Functional training can include weighted punching. Functional training is hard to define as far as I can tell. Look it up, it's almost ridiculous, really. Power is strength-speed. I have found the ADHD training methods I use work best for athletes. And a few days before tournament, the most promising workout is do NOTHING. Weird, but effective.

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